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A day of reckoning for Americans who lived beyond their means
By: Joseph Stiglitz on: 15.08.2007 [07:50 ] (3640 reads)
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A day of reckoning for Americans who lived beyond their means
By Joseph Stiglitz
08/12/07 "Taipei Tomes" — -- The pessimists who have long forecast that the US economy was in for trouble finally seem to be coming into their own. Of course, there is no glee in seeing stock prices tumble as a result of soaring mortgage defaults. But it was largely predictable, as are the likely consequences for both the millions of Americans who will be facing financial distress and the global economy.
The story goes back to the recession of 2001. With the support of former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan, US President George W. Bush pushed through a tax cut designed to benefit the richest Americans but not to lift the economy out of the recession that followed the collapse of the Internet bubble.
Given that mistake, the Fed had little choice if it was to fulfill its mandate to maintain growth and employment. It had to lower interest rates, which it did in an unprecedented way — all the way down to 1 percent.
It worked, but in a way fundamentally different from how monetary policy normally works. Usually, low interest rates lead firms to borrow more to invest more, and greater indebtedness is matched by more productive assets.
But given that overinvestment in the 1990s was part of the problem underpinning the recession, lower interest rates did not stimulate much investment. The economy grew, but mainly because American families were persuaded to take on more debt, refinancing their mortgages and spending some of the proceeds. And, as long as housing prices rose as a result of lower interest rates, Americans could ignore their growing indebtedness.
Even this did not stimulate the economy enough. To get more people to borrow more money, credit standards were lowered, fueling growth in so-called "sub?prime" mortgages. Moreover, new products were invented, which lowered upfront payments, making it easier for individuals to take bigger mortgages.
Some mortgages even had negative amortization: payments did not cover the interest due, so every month the debt grew more. Fixed mortgages, with interest rates at 6 percent, were replaced with variable-rate mortgages, whose interest payments were tied to the lower short-term T-bill rates.
What were called "teaser rates" allowed even lower payments for the first few years. They were teasers because they played off the fact that many borrowers were not financially sophisticated and didn't really understand what they were getting into.
And Greenspan egged them to pile on the risk by encouraging these variable-rate mortgages. On Feb. 23, 2004, he pointed out that "many homeowners might have saved tens of thousands of dollars had they held adjustable-rate mortgages rather than fixed-rate mortgages during the past decade."
But did Greenspan really expect interest rates to remain permanently at 1 percent — a negative real interest rate? Did he not think about what would happen to poor Americans with variable-rate mortgages if interest rates rose, as they almost surely would?
Of course, Greenspan's behavior meant that, under his watch, the economy performed better than it otherwise would have done. But it was only a matter of time before that performance became unsustainable.
Fortunately, most Americans did not follow Greenspan's advice to switch to variable-rate mortgages. But even as short-term interest rates began to rise, the day of reckoning was postponed, as new borrowers could obtain fixed-rate mortgages at interest rates that were not increasing.
Remarkably, as short-term interest rates rose, medium and long-term interest rates did not, something that was referred to as a "conundrum."
One hypothesis is that foreign central banks that were accumulating trillions of dollars finally figured out that they were likely to be holding these reserves for years to come, and could afford to put at least some of the money into medium-term US treasury notes yielding — initially — far higher returns than T-bills.
The housing price bubble eventually broke and, with prices declining, some have discovered that their mortgages are larger than the value of their house. Others found that as interest rates rose, they simply could not make their payments.
Too many Americans built no cushion into their budgets, and mortgage companies, focusing on the fees generated by new mortgages, did not encourage them to do so.
Just as the collapse of the real estate bubble was predictable, so are its consequences: housing starts and sales of existing homes are down and housing inventories are up. By some reckonings, more than two-thirds of the increase in output and employment over the past six years has been real estate-related, reflecting both new housing and households borrowing against their homes to support a consumption binge.
The housing bubble induced Americans to live beyond their means — net savings have been negative for the past couple of years. With this engine of growth turned off, it is hard to see how the US economy would not suffer from a slowdown. A return to fiscal sanity will be good in the long run, but it will reduce aggregate demand in the short run.
There is an old adage about how people's mistakes continue to live long after they are gone. That is certainly true of Greenspan. In Bush's case, we are beginning to bear the consequences even before he has departed.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18185.htm
by poiuytr on 15.08.2007 [11:15 ]
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dsf
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by poiuytr on 15.08.2007 [11:16 ]
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It's erased my kickarse masterpiece of a letter to Joseph here. What????
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by poiuytr on 15.08.2007 [11:19 ]
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I spent 20 min writing this truly kicking bottom piece and it disappeared. God damn it! I think I left the http shit in it referencing bloomberg bullshit.
Admins, stop screwing with the post stuff. Let people post http links for references.
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by poiuytr on 15.08.2007 [12:16 ]
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You're wrong, Joseph. The meltdown involves every baboon, not just those living off credit debt and more. It involves all the 700M western dwellers including you, me ol' dear boy.
Look here, Joe... it's like this:
The west media is a liar. It lies 24/7 using all imaginable forms of the most extreme lying. Even Goebbles would be shocked I think how pics from some bimbo US film can make the mainstream as Russian subs. All the media's main mouths are either members of the britz IIA or the US copycat, the CFR. If this means shit to you, consider this:
In 1980, the west media was run by some 60+ firms. By 1990, it was cut down to below half. This is when papa Bush felt so strong in his boots he actually went on TV and launched the NWO insurgency and threatened the world with "new world success"..."where the way of life is the way of law".
By 2000, when his brightest child was given the US main toilet seat... you know, the one that looks like he's got one eye slit, the media was run by 5 guys. Today, it's run by 2 or rather 1 with a secretary.
What's the point? Well, despite their lies, the west collapse is so nigh that even *their* news, despite their desperate police totalitarian control of it, leak it.
The last weekend the dollar printers were real busy as the Fed, the US monopoly for a bank to the US and the ECB, the equivalent to the EU, the other dirty cheek of the same diseased child murdering arse, have pumped 400B into the dying banking system.
So what, you say? Well, you see this means the banks of the west are done. They cannot cover their paper accounts with the current level of withdrawals and nothing has happened yet.
In fact, a bank in the US has already begged Bush to make a law to give them the right to deny withdrawals.
Yes, that's right. There is no money in the west banks. And Bush is gonna make a law for the baboon to withdraw own money.
I was in Argentina in 2001/2 covering this very scenario on a tiny little scale. They had troops in the streets and boards across the banks windows. It was quite a site to see these pompous bank tellers climbing on ladders like monkeys banging up dirty boards across these flashy banks with their soft faggot hands from counting money all their lives.
Well, thusfar, the west has not lined up at the banks to withdraw yet, and they're already screwed, just from the few institutions trying desperately to get out and run.
You see, it's too late to run. The money is not there. All the 800M of the west that think they have savings and accounts and retirement stock plans and all this bullshit that's made them so fucking busy that they couldn't be arsed about the mass child murder going on in their fucking name, have absolute and total shit. All the entire US and EU has is a bunch of paper statements with little zeros on it. If they went down to the bank, they'd get a law now thrown into their baboon snout to screw off.
Nice, huh? I told you before baboons, but you were too busy playing with your mutilated genitals, you dirty modular home dweller.
So the west went flat broke in the early 90s. The answer was again war for them.
But the war plan of 2000 that was to fix China by stealing Iran oil, smacking the rebellious Gulf into dollar compliance, check Russia in Central Asia, stealing Caspian Reserves, has nothing but backfired on the entire west.
Today, the US pumps 30B/month into Iraq just to get the 15% of the oil it sucked there before the war and the dollar monopoly is broken anyhow despite the death of Hussein, the man that challenged it first in 1990.
Iran is out of the question to fuck with, thank god and to Russia and so is Syria and even Lebanon. The freeworld has dumped the diseased dying dollar and controls more resources than the entire west combined since the shattering of the papa Bush dollar monopoly.
Yes, that was the true masterstroke of Russia here. No event in history of the west is more important. It's akin to the iceberg Titanic had a scrape with.
It happened mid 2006, a week after Cheney ran his vulgar mouth in Estonia on Russia. It's somewhat funny and ironic and fair that every baboon gets to eat the Cheney's badly chosen words.
How so?
Well, you see you cannot print money. That leads to inflation. Unless, of course, you have a monopoly on your money, in which case print on. But since the loss of it and the screaming failure of young Bush to re-assert it through the violent massacres and mass child murders he's committing with the army of the US baboon clit lookalikes, the US has nothing but inflation left today. And hyper hyper hyper at that.
The crash comes 1 year and bit later and here it is. Even Bloomberg talks about it.
And you, Joseph, are wasting breath on some sideline opinion about some extended credit crap. Get real? You're part of the propaganda bullshit, Joseph.
Beside losing everything he's touched, Bush gov't has been conspiring to take over Canada and Mexico, beside the US, which he took over through the military assault in 2001 on Sep 11.
Apparently, Bush figures the west will be saved by plundering Canada and Mexico. Well, not quite. He's also planning a damn good thrashing on the dollar.
Beside plotting this hostile takeover of these nations, he's been planning a dollar devaluation.
The coins are done. It's apparently fetchingly named Amero, not unlike Euro, with denominations of 20 and 100 are truly pretty. That's coin for 100 Ameros. You know what that means, don't you, Joseph?
That means the devaluation versus the dollar is gonna be in the 1:50 range or 5000%. That's what's known as hyper hyper hyper inflation. It's Germany in the 30s with Germans standing in long lines with a bag of bills buying a stale piece of bread.
I'm not the one to waste time on symbology but the lovely coins, as expected, have that fascist symbol on it as well. Yes, the very same one the US Congress has on both sides of the little babble podium. That's perhaps no surprise.
What's more interesting is the second symbol. It reads "2007". Yes, the end of the west is here. One more quarter is all the baboon has left, if that.
From there on, it's mayhem, concentration camps, and enforcement of Bush's plans to turn the US into this gigantic prison. Katrina and 911 will seem like a stroll in a park in comparison. The same, of course, goes for the EU, even though they've been playing somewhat anti-Bush hand in slurping up to Iran and Russia.
I'm surprised some high tech pretty little Silicone Tit Valley firm didn't win a contract from Bush to flash "Game Over" across the full moon. It would be a lovely touch, wouldn't it?
So what's you're on about some credit extension people crap? It's everyone. The entire west getting flushed in one single heave. Of course, it doesn't matter what I or you write. The baboon is not known for his intellectual capacity but only his Dracula appetite for human babies. And the poodle is only known for giving the baboon's dirty red rump a good slurp up.
So you know what, Joseph, write what you will, it's all pointless bullshit anyhow. And let the baboon get caught while flicking idly through the collection of questionable left overs of his genitals as the obese monkey's sprawled in front of the CNN mindrape feed. I cannot imagine the baboon would be in any other position when the cage falls.
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by Iranian-Shi'ite on 15.08.2007 [17:23 ]
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Loved every word of it. Going to read it a second and third time. I'm going to paraphrase it in a debate I'm having somewhere else.
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by Iranian-Shi'ite on 15.08.2007 [17:35 ]
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In Gogol's novel, "Dead Souls" the main character goes to Russian nobles and purchases the paper ownership of dead serfs for a fraction of what a live serf would have been worth. The noble pays fewer taxes, and the main character gets to use the non-existent serfs as collateral for a huge bank loan so that he can marry a rich girl and get her money.
The USA economy reminds me of that character in Gogol's novel. They are printing worthless paper to use as collateral to get loans.
And just as the papers in Gogol's novel represented dead souls, so do the US fiat currency represent the people the US has slaughtered with its theft of weaker nations and its investments in its military industries.
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by hiles69@msn.com on 15.08.2007 [18:50 ]
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Eloquent.
IS: nice analogy.
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by Gord on 15.08.2007 [23:29 ]
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poiuytr wrote: "...the US has nothing but inflation left today. And hyper hyper hyper at that."
In the last week central banks have injected the equivalent of one half trillion dollars into the banking system and the price of gold has not budged. It doesn't look like inflation.
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by chestergimli on 16.08.2007 [00:14 ]
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Gold is manipulated-period. Back in the 30's, the Rothschilds of Great Britain controlled the price of gold. I have finally come to think that the international financial elite know what they are doing. I think that they are grinding the human race to a halt with their power over money. If what I believe is true, that this whole scenario is controlled by depraved members of another race of people from another world, then what do they care about oil. They have gone far beyond that as any energy source. They need to unwind the human race to remove our potential freedom from and threat to them. The rise of technology and education, not the kind that you receive in today's educational systems, is the passport of freedom to the human race. Last, but not least, is to live a sexually moral life. This is the one weakness that human beings have that they exploit more than any other. Once they destroy the family with sexual imorallity, they have torn the fabric that holds a civilized society together. We must all fight with everything that we have in order to save ourselves.
T
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by CANUKISTAN_VIEW on 16.08.2007 [01:01 ]
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Just some additional notes. I knew the Feds was going to bust the consumers in order to keep the US dollar crawling from the abysm; otherwise the entire western imperial will be over over-night. However, what I did not expect is that the crisis created just by the SUBPRIME FRAUD AGAINST THE LITTLE GUYS IN USA will have the central bankers around the world DROPPING FROM HELICOPTERS ANOTHER $450 BILLIONS DOLLAR OF USELESS PAPERS THAT WILL MAKE THE INFLATION EVEN BIGGER!
Could you believe it folks that the small guys in USA that were fouled by the bankers and the Fed Reserve alias Greenscam, to jump into a mortgage trap, ARE NOW THE ONE WHO ARE HAVING THE LAST LAUGH? They are losing very little because they always have very little in the first place! BUT THE BANKERS ARE LOOSING THEIR ASSES ON THE DEAL.
SO THIS SMALL USA PEOPLE, THE ONES THAT WERE FOULED, ARE NOW WALKING AWAY FROM THEIR PROPERTY AND BUSTING THE WORLD FINANCIAL SYSTEM FRAUD! THEY ARE ROYALLY F*CKING THE FED RESERVE FIAT DOLLAR SCAM, CENTRAL BANKERS FIAT MONEY AROUND THE WORLD AND THE CHERRY ON THE CAKE ARE THOSE GREEDY BANKERS GOING BELLY UP!
AMAZING - UNBELIEVABLE - honestly I did expected this problem to come first in this financial crisis (weakest link in the chain) as mentioned many times before BUT I NEVER EXPECTED THE WORLD WIDE FINANCIAL TSUNAMI THESE SMALL PEOPLE CREATED TO THESE WESTERN MAFIA BANKERS!
Thus to fuck up the system even further, if you have family in the USA or UK that is stranded by these mortgage scam - give them a hand and encourage them NOT TO PAY FOR MONTHS OR UNTIL THEY REALLY HAVE TO - AND THEN PAY ONE OR TWO MONTHS AND THEN DO NOT PAY FOR ANOTHER FOUR MONTHS i.e. LIVE AS LONG AS YOU CAN FOR FREE AND PAY AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE TO THESE FAT CATS. They will not kick you out that fast simple because the entire real estate market will collapse SOONER THAN PLANNED INCLUDING THE BIG BOYS LIKE Donald Trump et al.
For young guys, they should go back to their parents or extended family for a reasonable fee, or share shelter with other friends, or a buy a trailer you can afford BUT DO NOT GET TRAPPED PAYING 5 TIMES THE PRICE OF THE HOUSE YOU BOUGHT because you will have no life for 20 or 30 years BY JUST PAYING AND PAYING TO THE BANKERS THAT SCREWED YOU IN THE FIRST PLACE. After all, you may end up losing the house anyway as the recession and depression start hurting higher segments of the society!
I THINK REVENGE WILL BE SWEET & SOUR FOR THIS SMALL PEOPLE BUT FOR THE BANKERS IT CANNOT BE BUT JUST VERY VERY BITTER!
Another interesting point is that most people see the shit that is going around and some even talk about, BUT SO FAR TO THEM THIS IS JUST A STATISTICS GAME and cyber reality AS THEIR ARSES ARE STILL INTACT! So far no impact on their home, jobs, pension plan and life style. BUT FOR SURE THEY ALL SMELL RAT IN THE HORIZON AND FOR MOST PART THEY DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO as they have being living with pink glasses an entire generation i.e. 30 years - the longest bull market ever compliments of Greenscam! Many of them still fell they are cruising in the unsinkable Titanic and they just can see the iceberg or the mad captain in the White whore house is refusing to change course to the delight of the congresswhores!
But the guys who are running their own businesses or working in the financial market, THESE GUYS KNOWS WHAT IS GOING ON AND NOW ARE PANICKING AND BECOMING HYSTERICAL like pathetic MSNBC Cramer - the former happy crowd man that suddenly lost his pink glasses. CRAMER …IT IS OVER!
We must remind ourselves that this crisis today was created by just the subprime mortgage lenders; perhaps this subprime scam represents no more than 5% of the entire financial fraud when added the derivatives, printed money out of thin air, trade deficits, budget deficits, corporate debts, personal debts, corporate fraud, etc. The subprime crisis was triggered by some LARGE INVESTORS - SMART MONEY – who wanted to move their money out from this scam and into higher quality (less risky investments). As the bankers NEVER HAVE THE CASH MONEY FOR ANY LARGE REDEMPTION they become illiquid and either has to close the doors, freeze the funds or get sugar daddy central bankers to come up with the cash! To prevent a pandemic panic not seen since 9-11, the central bankers pretended to have solve the crisis. "Hey guys here is some few billions in cash and for f*ck sake keep discrete, calm and quiet". BUT AFTER THOSE $450 BILLIONS IN CASH THE ENTIRE WORLD MARKET IS CRUSHING BY THE HOUR!
Those getting margin calls, or losing money on their stock/options/derivatives or losing money with the Japanese carry trade or as the yen is going up versus the US dollar, WHAT EVER THE REASONS THEY MAY HAVE the fact is that the subprime HAS INFESTED THE ENTIRE FINANCIAL MARKET OF THE WORLD.
Therefore investors’ world wide ARE LIQUIDATING THEIR STOCKS - the bad ones to cut further loses BUT ALSO THE GOOD ONES to raise cash for the margin calls or coming crunching! Not surprisingly, Trichet, the president of the ECB call for "COMPOSTURE". Sure; this guy thinks that because the central bankers around the world put forward $ 450 billions they have solved the $450 TRILLION DOLLAR SCAM! Hey buddy - we ain't see noting as yet!
THIS SHIT JUST STARTED UNFOLDING!
IF YOU ARE OPTIMISTIC you may want to think that it will be plenty of shit around!
However, if you are PESSIMISTIC you may want to thinks that it will not be enough shit to please everyone needs!
Some stocks (good and bad ones) have lost 50% or even 80% HOWEVER GOLD IS HANGING IN THERE AT $ 667 - SHINING AND READY TO MOVE AGAIN. But I believe the shit is not going to hit the fan royally before OCTOBER 2007! And this does not mean that the GAME IS NOT OVER RIGHT NOW! It only means that hell is not all out YET!
There is another very important point that we need to make here. AND THIS IS THAT THE COLLAPSE OF THE USA DOLLAR AND THE WESTERN EUROPEAN FINANCIAL SCAMS WAS HIGHLY ACCELERATED BY THE IRAQI RESISTANCE and the Afghanistan people struggle. What was supposed to be a $ 40 billion home-run and the looting of the Iraqi oil and Afghanistan natural gas BECAME A $ 500 BILLION DEEPER HOLE IN THE USA GOVERNMENT FINANCES, THE TOTAL DISCREDIT AND MORAL COLLAPSE OF THE WESTERN IMPERIAL RULERS as there no WMD, no nuclear threat, the hunting of Bin Laden is now a 38 years NATO occupation of Afghanistan according to a brutish general, 160,000 imperial invaders plus another 180,000 mercenaries have been defeated by the tremendous courage and endurance of the people of these two nations.
THANKS TO IRAQI PEOPLE WE ARE SEEING TODAY THE MORAL, FINANCIAL AND MILITARY IMPERIAL DEBACLE THAT WAS EXPECTED TO ARRIVE FEW DECADES LATER.
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by CANUKISTAN_VIEW on 16.08.2007 [01:41 ]
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YOU SAID: "If what I believe is true, that this whole scenario is controlled by depraved members of another race of people from another world, then what do they care about oil".
The bastards that control are not from another race from another world! These mother f*ckers are like you and me EXCEPT THAT SOME CENTURIES AGO THEY MANAGED TO GAIN CONTROL OF SOME KINGDOMS, enslaved their people, killed at will in their greedy wars for land grabing and gold looting and genocides of other nations and civilizations. These bastards are today her majesty the queen of england, su majestad Juan Carlos in Spain, her majestity Juliana of the nederlands (did your heard before about pirates? etc. But there is also another group of bastards that come from eas - the murderous and perverted Khazars that adopted judaism - rewrote the bible to their wishes and interest AND ALSO WROTE THE TALMUD. it is this second book that the khazaars use to brain-washed themselves as special race (some idiots belive them), that is OK to kill, rape, robbe any "gentile" as they are not human beings! NOW IF YOU ARE TAUGHT ALL THESE SHIT AT EARLY AGE AND BEFORE YOU CAN THINK AND ANALIZE THESE MONSTRUOSITY then you are a criminal for life and according to the sacred principles of your rabbino.
GOLD HAS BEEN AROUND FOR MILEANIUMS IN EVERY CIVILIZATION AND WAY BEFORE THE ROTHSCHILD that came to light in the 17th - 18th centuries.
Cheers
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by gmmonko on 16.08.2007 [02:05 ]
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Does anybody believe their is another explanation than the banks and institutes have created to much money through diverse products?
Now we see one bubble burst and it is possible, also nobody on earth has the data that this will settle a much lower level than it was before. Means all stock market indexes will go down much further. Much could be 20% or less, but it could be also more.
The money controlled economy is like a religion: believe and hope. Certainly they can't afford to let the system go broke. The USD will gain some strength and that was planned any way.
No generation can ever pay the debt back!
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by CANUKISTAN_VIEW on 16.08.2007 [02:12 ]
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You said: "Doesn't look like inflation"
The correlation between GOLD and the US dollar is not equal to one! This means they move sometimes a bit different and for a brief period of time but then THEY GET ADJUSTED BY THE MARKET. At this time, Gold has not moved up these days BECAUSE THERE ARE MANY BANKERS AROUND THE WORLD BUYING US DOLLAR IN ORDER TO REDEEM THOSE FUNDS INVESTED IN US SUBPRIME SCAM. When this REDEMPTION IS OVER GOLD WILL RE-ADJUST AND MOVE UP AGAIN.
You may want to confirm the following if there is or not inflation in USA.
Back in 2001-2002: US dollar index was around 120 and gold around $ 300/oz.
Then back in January 2005 the US dollar index collapsed to 80 and gold moved up to $ 460/oz
Then now August 2007 the US dollar index is down again at 81 HOWEVER gold is at $ 667/oz i.e. $ 200 higher! ! !
ARE YOU BLIND OR JUST PART OF THE DISINFORMATION?
AND DO YOU KNOW WHY THE GOLD MOVED FROM $460/OZ IN 2005 TO AROUND $ 660/OZ IN 2007 WHEN THE US DOLLAR INDEX CHANGED INSIGNIFICANTLY FROM 80 TO 81.7? In fact gold should have been even lower.
Because in the last two years the Fed Reserve have been printing more money out of thin air and lost during this period another $250 billions in Iraq-Afghanistan wars. This is called INFLATION created by the government. So the US dollar index did not move in these two years (or better corrected again to the lowest 30 year support) HOWEVER THE GOLD WENT UP $ 200/OZ!
Did I lose you? Is this simple shit so hard to understand and see? Oh man !
Cheers
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by hiles69@msn.com on 16.08.2007 [03:12 ]
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Make your mind up!
Sure you are entitled to post any any number of conflicting opinions, but plz get real!
You have the opinion that god will sail in and save the world but, on the other hand, you have just written, " We must all fight with everything that we have in order to save ourselves."
So who or what is it going to be? Some hypothetical god, or human ingenuity?
Also you claimed that god is going to abolish money (the means of exchange), but now you are extolling gold as the means of exchange, store of wealth and whatever, i.e. a form of money.
So what is going to be?
Some god sails in and abolishes money and all human problems?
Or, " We must all fight with everything that we have in order to save ourselves."? Well those are your words and totally fly in the face of the god-stuff you espouse.
Personally I hold to Socrates' basic view that we are all fundamentally ignorant and really do not have a clue about such as a "higher purpose" for our species existence (though we can be very clever at mundane stuff, like inventing cars, washing machines, McMansions, nuclear weapons, fiat currencies and absurd religious belief systems.
Whatever chester: you are engaged in "double-think", i.e. holding two totally opposed views in your head at the same time.
Have you ever read Orwell's "1984"? You should.
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by Gord on 16.08.2007 [06:30 ]
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"At this time, Gold has not moved up these days BECAUSE THERE ARE MANY BANKERS AROUND THE WORLD BUYING US DOLLAR IN ORDER TO REDEEM THOSE FUNDS INVESTED IN US SUBPRIME SCAM."
If I take the point correctly it is that foreign bankers are buying greenbacks to support the US $ so that when they mark their US subprime mortgage backed securities to market these will be worth more in their domestic currencies, thus recovering some of the capital loss resulting from much lower prices for the MBSs.
The equity tranches of CDOs comprised mainly of subprime MBSs are down maybe 60% and maybe 70%. Meanwhile the US $ index is up maybe 2%.
The foreign bankers are going to have to buy a heck of a lot of greenbacks to make those equity tranches whole!
I repeat, in the last week central banks have pumped the equivalent of half a trillion dollar and gold has done nothing. This is strange behaviour from the world's traditional hedge against inflation.
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by poiuytr on 16.08.2007 [07:40 ]
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Lovely meeting up with you again and thanks for the kind words IS. BTW, IS, I did write you but the email's bouncing like US bank withdrawals.
Canukistan, fantastic data, as always. Hey write me already, let's do something more. I mean, I'm cut & pasting your stuff and it needs a page of its own. This scroll off into oblivion stuff doesn't do it justice. I'm at zdertyhkiasfqwkjuf445tergx on yahoo. Warning to all yank baboons! If you write an unsolicited spam to me, I'm posting your email and IP here. I just can't deal with yanks anymore. It's like talking at a god damn yelping mutt. I don't even wanna talk AT it, much less WITH it.
BTW, today was the 5th consecutive day that they "injected" 7 more B into the dying banks. And still they can't even cover money market. That's what the whole US is in. This is real funny. These baboons pretended to be too busy working to notice the carnage caused by their lazy obese beastly excremental kind and now when it's all said and done, they have none of it. They just returned it all back to Bush.
They really need to keep a few baboon families around for future generations to study this imbecile creature that believes that Boeings can vapourise and the alKaida fable.
And it looks as though the US mainstream mindrape media has finally admitted, after 2 yrs of lying, to North American Union. This is interesting because it's mainstream now. Well, the coin says 2007. I guess they better get on it. And it's today.
My bet is that Bush will phase it in like Euro now blaming the "radical" saving of the US economy of the evil children of Palestine, Iraq, Iran, and Russia.
They won't drop the dollar overnight. After all, 300M baboons screaming on top of their lungs their single four letter word they've managed to pick up in their desolate TV commercial eating lives may disturb his highness Single Eyeslit.
They'll just pop it in saying it's easier to go to Mexico and Canada now and all the companies that truck crap up and down will eat it up and slowly they'll make border crossings for Amero folks who can go without hassles and so on. You know, the non-Amero folks get a genital feel up by some gender undefined yank baboom wearing five walkie talkies like they do trying to squeeze its fat tyres of lard into the small beige uniform. Stores will accept both suddenly one day and pretty soon it's all diluted in. The baboon is never gonna spot a thing. I mean, once they cut your penis off, it's hard to top that. I think that's why they mutilate male baboons in the US.
It's really funny though because the whole point is that they're completely out of money and out of options.
Of course, Amero, just like every other bright idea Bush had, will solve absolutely nothing and will lose value the second its launched. Plundering Mexico and Canada will only create more problems and debt for them, if not war, not the other way around. It's funny how harebrained they really are. It's just unreal. Arrogance backed by stupidity.
I guess in the land of baboons it really only takes an orangutan to run the zoo.
It's really unreal and really thank god for Putin standing strong buzzing the US waters with nuke bombers 'cause they have absolutely no solution but WWIII now.
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by poiuytr on 16.08.2007 [07:51 ]
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I have to repeat this again and again. After all I'm fighting the entire west media whore mindrape machine so some repetition from me is to be expected.
It's funny how the west channels like Reuters, CNN, BBC, Fox and all of them how they refer to it as a "GLOBAL" market meltdown, shakedown, tremble, whatever. The key word is "GLOBAL".
Well, that's yet another lie aimed to fear-trip the freeworld and placate the baboons beginning to bristle their dirty coats and the poodles who have realised that their baboon arse licking got them nothing but a boot in the crotch.
ASEAN, South Am, are not part of the meltdown. They're decoupled monetary, marketwise, and resource-wise. There isn't a nation in the freeworld that will miss any part of the entire west from Prague to Los Angeles. The west represent some piffly 10% of the planet.
But the west media keeps at their lies, feartrips, and verbal terrorism. So don't no one fall for that and start repeating that here.
China's gonna deliver the final blow here when they finally dump the T-Bills. The entire dollar interest today is run by China now. And I don't believe that China and Bush are on even occasional cunnilingus terms. The sooner the better, maybe they'll save a child from the US murders.
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by poiuytr on 16.08.2007 [08:02 ]
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I must applaud your being civil. Obviously not a yank. I'll too reply with nothing but utmost civility.
Still you're raising the wrong question. The question here isn't some textbook gold/inflation pretense non-existent relationship. The west is not and never been a free market economy and thus no page of all the economy school textbook models apply to anything. Debating such is as useful as the word 'foreskin' in the US perversion they call English.
The whole point is that the west is run. No money. War loss. Everyone, 90% of the planet, has had it. No options. No solutions. No future, not even short term. I'm sorry you've missed it.
The question that remains is why aren't the yank baboons comparing each other's obese lard tyre pork belly guts in the streets to select the fattest one of the lot to sing the west its final pig good riddance squeal. After all civil, sophisticated, and refined operas end like that. So that the Freeworld may know when it's time for the standing ovation.
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by Syrian on 16.08.2007 [12:59 ]
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It seems that most people behave in a purely reactionary way, another article saying "yesterday you hated the US dollar, now its the currency you can't live without". Really? What's changed?
The USA is printing even MORE money. Those reserve notes, once they trickle down into the banks and get shuffled around will equate to 99 the value in pure Debt. There's demand today, but they'll be worthless tomorrow.
Its funny now that the truly insidious US empire will go down, and will take down anyone who wishes to profit from it. A suitable end, to an unethical person, attempting to profit off the blood of the Iraqi, Palestinian and Lebanese children.
poiuytr, one thing, you say its not worldwide. To an extent that is true, but its not true for USAn affiliated countries. Countries which whore themselves to the USA, like Japan, Australia and the European Union are hurting as well. Their central banks have all — in harmony printed money like there was no tomorrow. Even the rouble which is virtually pegged to the Euro is affected.
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by CANUKISTAN_VIEW on 16.08.2007 [14:02 ]
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As you must know in the future (leveraged) market there is COT report (Commitment of Traders). See SOFTWARENORTH.com for actual data. This COT report divides the investors in three groups: Commercial (smart money and the one who use and produce the goods), Large Speculators (parasites also some times call dumb money as they are using small people's funds to make money just for themselves) and the Small Speculator. HISTORICALLY, and correct if I am wrong, THE COMMERCIAL OR SMART MONEY IS ALWAYS AHEAD OF THE PACK AND THE ONES WHO MAKE THE BIG BUCKS! THEY NEVER LOSE IN ANY COMMODITY.
Thus in the case of gold commodity market, the Commercial or smart money are the central bankers, the large mining producers and the large gold users. Now, listen to this: IF THE GOLD PRODUCERS ARE CLOSING THE HEDGE POSITIONS AT RECORD LEVELS IS BECAUSE THEY KNOW THE GOLD PRICE WILL KEEP GOING UP AND NOT DOWN! Barrik Gold lost over $5 billions last year when they de-hedged their gold production at $ 535; they were right as gold did not get cheaper and went up to $ 662 as of today! This past week NEWMONT lost over $4 billions as they de-hedged 100% their gold production at $ 660 or so; THEY WILL ALSO BE RIGHT AS THEY EXPECT THE GOLD NOT TO CORRECT ANY FURTHER AND GO FOR THE $ 700 AND THEN $ 1000 and who know how higher. You know these are the two largest gold mines in the world so they must know what's cooking; Barrik is highly connected to central bankers and Bush family and for rigging the market! Got the idea? Not only that the de-hedging process is at all time high. WHY as you will see in the report posted below.
Now consider these few numbers:
Q201 (second quarter 2001): 110 million ounces of gold were hedged and gold was at $ 260.
Q205: down to 55 million ounces of gold hedged and gold was at $ 550.
Q207: down to 32 million ounces of gold hedged and gold is now at $ 660.
H ttp://www.kitco.com/reports/mitsui/mitsui_2007-08-13.pdf
In other words who gives a shit if gold does not move within a day or within a week when we all know is caused by some central bankers’ manipulations to disguise and confuse the crowd.
Looking from another perspective, WHY ARE ALL THESE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS BEING INVESTED IN NEW MINING EXPLORATIONS AND NEW MINE DEVEVELOPMENTS? Right, because there is a huge demand coming from the new economies that are emerging after hundreds of years of western empires colonization! These extra demands will not go away despite of the collapsing of the USA-western Europe economies; also because the price will keep going up!
FINALLY: the well advertised selling of gold by some western European central bankers and even the possibility of the IMF HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GOLD POTENTIAL PRICE DECLINE. It has to do with their government growing debt to the point that they are going to burst one after the other. USA, SPAIN, ITALY, FRANCE ARE IN DEEP RED. Italy for instance can sell all its gold reserve and paid just 2% of their debt! And then what? They cannot go back to the Roman Empire time by looting other nations. They tried in Iraq and got their asses kicked out; they are still trying in Afghanistan with the other European imperial rulers and their terrorist NATO organization. France and the Dutch is still trying to get Africa back to the colonial backwardness and looting. WESTERN IMPERIAL MONARCHS . . . IT IS OVER
FINALLY GORDON, if you were to be savvy on investments YOU WOULD NEVER MAKE SERIOUS AND CONCLUSIVE STATEMENTS BASED ON SHORT TERM DATA OR CHARTS! I am sure you are savvy but you just do not want to share with us what you know. The long response is to help other folks demystify the financial shit of the exclusive parasitic club of finance market.
CHEERS MAN!
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by Gord on 16.08.2007 [15:28 ]
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Since CANUKISTAN_VIEW has commented several times, directly and indirectly, on my motives, I will clarify.
I have been saying for several years that when the fertilizer hit the air conditioner central banks would flood markets with cash and consequently gold would soar.
The first part of the prediction has come true but not the last. I ask why not.
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by Iranian-Shi'ite on 16.08.2007 [15:29 ]
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What is a hedge position?
What does it mean to de-hedge something?
thanks
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by CANUKISTAN_VIEW on 16.08.2007 [16:09 ]
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When producers are in a bear market (prices are going down) they protect themselves by selling future production at a predertermined price that will cut their loses should the price would go further down. However, if the price goes higher, they lose this extra profit. This is HEDGING. So the commodity market was in a down trend for over 23 years; thus many miners HEDGED their future production AND DID GOOD AT TIME AND UNTIL THE COMMODITY PRICE BOTTOMED. the problem for many miners was that they did not foresee that the correction was over and they kept selling their goods (gold) well below the market value until they decided to buy it back AT THE MARKET VALUE! This is why they lost their shirt for doing it SO LATE! Confabulation with Central bankers and their financiers? YOU BET! barrick CEO ended up in court, fined and disgraced for life.
Cheers
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by Econ on 16.08.2007 [16:45 ]
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You have to laugh at Stiglitz and his latest announcement.
What Stiglitz never anticipated was that Americans would feel the pain of too much debt. That was something that only happened in Third World countries that borrowed too much from the IMF.
A few months ago, Stiglitz was warning that the Iraq war would cost over $2 trillon dollars.
The collapsed US economy has been propped up by government deficit (debt) spending.
That is why neither the Democrats nor the Republicans want a quick withdrawal even though the US has been defeated as the US will have to find another way to use the $20 billion a month they are printing up for Iraq.
Stiglitz won a Nobel Prize in Economics for essentially propping up the failed US state by extending a ton of debt to Third World nations through the IMF/World Bank and its 'neoclassical' and 'neoliberal' policies, a code word for US dollar hegemony.
That dollar hegemony is collapsing today.
The US could only survive if the these countries kept revolving the debt further impoverishing themselves (by being forced to import US food preventing self sufficiency, useless military hardware to attack its own citizens or to privatize state owned enterprises and pension funds so that they could be looted) and allowing the banks to reap huge profits.
Collectively, all the Third World countries who have not repaid their IMF loans should do is to default on their IMF debt since they can't realisticially repay any of it and let the dollar collapse further.
The US can't invade all of the countries since the US has been defeated in Iraq and its military decimated.
We had the Mexican, Asian and finally the collapse of Argentina that exposed the scam and US dollar hegemony.
How do you build prosperity under a mountain of debt?
Now the US is going to look pretty much like Argentina when they defaulted on their IMF loans.
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by Atheist on 16.08.2007 [17:24 ]
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Yes.... more bad news. Central banks are acting strange lately. First, U.S. is infected by the subprime fund scandal. Then global stocks tumbled.... Now Russian central bank is sucked into U.S.’s subprime blackhole and starting to intervene!
Excerpt ( http ://www.ft.com/cms/s/cdaad60e-4c00-11dc-b67f-0000779fd2ac.html ):
“Russia’s central bank injected Rbs43.1bn into the country’s banking system on Thursday as Moscow battled the first symptoms of the global liquidity crunch spreading to its markets.
Market players said Russia was facing a liquidity squeeze for the first time since the global subprime crisis flared up as foreign investors bail out of the rouble bond market in a bid to raise financing. Foreign investors have also been fleeing Russia’s stock market. Russia’s RTS stock exchange closed down more than 3.5 per cent on Thursday.”
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by Syrian on 16.08.2007 [17:57 ]
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ht tp://www.chartflow.com/chartserver/Images/GS3168.png
This graph should make it clear. :) I've said it before, the international finance system is in some trouble. No fiat currency is safe. All major central banks are printing money. But no one notices, because a fiat currency never had any worth — its just faith in the government or pseudo-government body which issues it. A faith, which I believe is misplaced.
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by Atheist on 16.08.2007 [18:43 ]
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I bet that there is a connection between the illegal immigrants from Mexico, H-1B(renewable) foreign workers, BRAC (Base Realignment and Closure 2005) relocating employees, lawyers, and the housing payment problems.
- As time passes, illegal immigrants in America produce weakly, get tired/bored of working, and start to commit crimes. Because of their deteriorating situations, they have to leave their housing payments and labors to make trips to prisons or be deported back to Mexico. There are already growing reports about them murdering Americans.
- After foreign skilled workers (H-1B and legal immigration) from India and Asia arrive, they become too interested in affording huge houses! I already see many big houses resided by those people. As a medium-size city dweller in America myself (southerner), I have noticed that a beautiful Asian-like (Japanese-like?) house surrounded by the astonishingly pretty landscape was built last three years ago. It has a flat-level roof which is extremely rare in my city. Then an Asian family moved into there. Within two years later, they already moved out! Maybe they were returning to Japan? Or Asia? I never know. But fortunately, someone else moved in to take their place. There are plenty of Indian (from the Old World) home owners in some upscale neighborhoods.
- Many new nice-looking houses in my city are already built to expect the oncoming BRAC employees (defense/military workers) from another city. What if they build too many houses while the BRAC employees start to rent apartments and purchase the old houses?
- Totally contradiction to the past generation, there are already too many Americans who are too young to own the luxurious houses. There are young parents, who still rear young kids, already moved into a mini-mansion which is recently built within a few miles from my home!
- Too many lawyers in America. A number of American lawyers already exceeded one million in 2003! Many of them are profiting for their involvement in immigration works, after other matters. Lawyers/politicians are not like engineers, carpenters, scientists, technicians, blue-collar employees, and other productive workers who would research, discover, and build to “concretely” (not abstractly/subjectively) contribute U.S. society.
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by Princeof1000enemies on 16.08.2007 [18:44 ]
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concept of value, it is a WEAPON to create a weakened, and ultimately subserviant populous.
This was all by design. Unless one is already a billionaire, or mulimillionare, the prospects of being immune from the imminent shift is rather dire.
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by jouna,iraq-war.ru on 16.08.2007 [19:44 ]
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Just in a hour ago:
If anyone interested in posting, go ahead:
12 US troops killed in Afghanistan
h ttp://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=19695§ionid=351020403
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by Throw_Off_The_Killer on 16.08.2007 [22:38 ]
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for Americans to experience the same poverty/disease-type of conditions they are responsible for spreading all over the planet.
Justice is served.
@Canukistan View
I very much enjoyed your post where you described the small guys in the USA walking away from their properties and causing such distress for the system. Very nice.
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by makarov on 16.08.2007 [22:57 ]
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We all know US- buck is in the deep shit. Recently D. Walker top US financial inspector announced that US liabilities are about FIFTY TRILLIONS $ already. With about 55- 60 Trillions of total debt without liabilities it is MORE THAN 100 TRILLIONS $ 900-1000% of US GDP.
What HYYYPPPPEEEERRRRR inflation is required to annihilate all of these debts!?
Sane person would never even deal calculating this, simply abandon and BAN the bucks as a currency for foreign trade.
But financial powers of our countries are insane! They are too much dependent on US, too less afraid of their respected peoples and too much rely on corrupted media to act properly.
We can cry day and night in internet blogs and forums, but financial powers are NOT OBLIGED to react on our cries! They simply IGNORE us and that's all.
Therefore, the main question is HOW we can make them to listen to our thesis and to sell each countries goods for its' own currency (little countries should form Unions for this purpose)?
I think there is one way: to suite Central Banks and Finanacial Ministeries of our countries in local courts. Patriotic forces of each country should unite around this idea and act.
The job is surely not simple! It's not so easy to find proper law and proper court and to keep the deal. But all of the local media will be yours in this case! (Understand!?!?).
This is the way of hijacking media and then canalisation of public disappointment an unrest in the satyagraha type actions.
Those who will succeed will win, those who will be last will lose everything nominated in bucks and even much more - the opportunitioes for development!
But even if my country - Russia - will be the last and among the worst loosers I still will be happy when this unjust Yankkeestan's hegemony that is based on the goddamned buck will fall and nations will form new global financial system based on the national currencies that will be free from parasetism.
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by CanadianPeaceWarrior on 17.08.2007 [00:31 ]
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I LUV AMARIKKA, WHEE ART NOMUR 1!! WHAI? BUCAOST WHEE KAN ONELY KOUNT WHUP TA 1.
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by IvanGrozny on 17.08.2007 [01:08 ]
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US dollar a year ago. Now Russia's stock market is hit by a crisis which is entirely foreign engineered. Companies making huge profits are losing money in their stock shares because of this. Russia's currency is not fiat money, it is backed by precious metals in reserves. But it does not matter because this is being caused by foreign money.
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by poiuytr on 17.08.2007 [01:19 ]
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Absolutely right you are: Yes, the collapse is not just US but its affiliates. I've said nothing but that all along. And all the poodles that are getting flushed need to understand that.
That's why I call it West and Freeworld. The west is piffly 10% of the world in terms of populace, market, resources. The freeworld is the rest.
Yes, and the dollar flushing is the end for the west. I've said nothing but precisely this. So agreement here!
And the west is US, EU, to Prague now, Aussies' Howard playpen, NZ, Israel, and Japan, the US mil and bank base. Yes.
And the west media is feartripping everyone by saying it's a global meltdown. I'm saying, no, relax, it's only the murderers, the 10% that's raped the planet for 2000 yrs. Nothing to do with the freeworld or the planet. Just baboons and their slit lickers going.
And I'm trying to remind everyone all the west crap is a reason to celebrate, not argue it anymore, not talk at the yank baboon anymore. Let them gesture like apes, like Bush does with his middle finger, when the pig doesn't have it stuck up his snout. Just the pictures of Bush tell the whole story of the neanderthal west. And that's all that's going.
Let jubilation reign!
As far as Syria goes, you'll be able to breathe a sigh of relief the second the US drops Israel and you'll get Golan back.
So with ya, sorry you thought I wasn't on the same wavelength.
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by Syrian on 17.08.2007 [01:50 ]
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I've got a question, why does Russia maintain a peg with the euro while its not fiat at the same time?
@poiuytr
Indeed, I see what your angle is. Let jubilation reign!
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by poiuytr on 17.08.2007 [03:25 ]
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Too much talk on fiat currencies and gold/inflation interest/debt stuff. All these are econ models that never worked anyways.
Gold's gone through the roof because of dollar dumping. There's tons of crap here because people expect textbook behaviours from people, from the baboons. That's not gonna ever happen. The average baboon is 3K in debt. The yanks have no way of loading into gold and make these textbook school kid models work. Those who had billions have unloaded the dollar years ago like Cheney, and Bill Gates. The rest doesn't matter.
Princeof1000enemies said it above real well and emphatically. None of these behaviours concern the slaves and the west is 99% slaves today. The elite, the murderers the child torturers, actually got richer by some 20% in the last few years. Last year the US 60% assets belonged to 400 people. No textbook has ever pretened to model this western bullshit slavery lunacy. And yet here people expect to see these bullshit models put in use.
Beside, gold is crap too. Bush is gonna issue an order to confiscate it, do a gov't buyout at a price set by him. Gold is absolutely NO hedge against inflation. The US has already done this one when it dumped the gold standard. There's nothing to save the dollar.
I bet the baboons think realestate will do it. Well, it won't. It belongs to Bush and with a single signature he'll reclaim it with militias.
This is the most important economy lesson here: The west is not a free market. It's operated by monopoly in every respect. The monopolies that make up the west revenue source are protected by military and war, an ongoing massacre. It's taken attacks on 68 nations since WWII to float the US slavery system they call capitalism. It's taken probably 20-30M of lives of innocent people and some 5M children to float the fucking disgusting baboon's mobile home dwelling so he can sit there, that diseased monkey, and shoot his snout off while flicking through the flearidden collection of genital leftovers! Fucking child murder bastards!
Look, all economy talk ends here. The US and the EU torture, maim, and murder children. No more is need to be disgusted. Such vermin murder evil has to be stopped. Economy debates are neither here nor there. They only waste people's time.
The entire west is a murder system that made money off drugs, poverty by design, war peddling, and hunger export. The west has never had any other revenue resource. It's never produced a single fucking thing. It's never done anything positive for the world.
The US has never done a single one thing that helped the world. Not one!!!!!!
No economy model (supply/demans, economy of scale, inflation, interest rates, bond market) applies. The US lost dollar monopoly, a concept no west economy book has ever touched, much like the whore west media, and yet that was the only reason why the US got so fat off funny money.
The monopoly is no more, as such the dollar is worthless, and today there is no money to be withdrawn from the funny money banks. The banks cannot cover not only subprime loan overextentions, but even hedge market and today not even money market. That's the middle class base for the entire west. This means that the west today has no future. No westener can retire today. It's totally and completely over. And US banks are asking Bush to give them law to deny people their money in the accounts.
Printing 10B a day to float the MM today is hyperinflation in waiting at some 50% now. It's completely pointless to debate it.
The only way this could be fixed is if Bush took out Russia and China and forced everyone on the planet to buy back the dollar. A scenario that even Bush today must find impossible.
Everything else is nonsensical masturbatory waste of time playing the west media game of babbling endlessly bullshit 24/7. Childish prattle buzzing through the west. I say, don't waste time.
It's nothing to do with hedge funds. Nothing to do with loans. NOthing to do with money market. Nothing to do with the fucking dirty US exchange crashing like Bush's Al-Sadr base that was blown up with 3000 of his murderers last year.
It's all down to the dollar monopoly being destroyed in mid-2006.
The rest follows. There is no single currency or security or metal or antique or realestate that can protect the west from total fiscal demise.
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by poiuytr on 17.08.2007 [03:33 ]
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RUBL PEG TO EURO
It's a masterful stroke of Putin's again to annihilate both sides of the west in one single smack. Mainly the west banker swines have dumped dollar for Euro. Both are disasters for the west. EU was afraid of 1,30 rate. That was years ago. Good for them little rendition flights torture bastard cunts. Don't you all fucking agree????
Or is anyone sad that Czechs are going broke with the US since they bent over like a whore and let Bush rape it? Does anyone care about the Dutch? Belgians? Fuck them all the lot. Anyone who helped Bush in his crimes against humanity, in his child murders, in 911, in London 7/7, in Basra, in Falluja razing, in all the camps... Everyone must go and permanently so.
Debate on gold and inflation is so fucking pointless it amazes me some britzie poodle has time to waste on it. He should worry about the mayhem that's to ensue, probably as soon as this year.
EU is gone and the idea, if I can even be so bold as to read Putin, is to break it off from the US and play them against one another.
To a large extend this has already happened. And thus falls the idea of Bush's that creating this pan-west union across the atlantic with NAU and EU run by the same disease.
That's the whole thing there. If the EU wants to live on, they'll have to go Rubl, Russian oil, and dump all ties to the NAU.
Look, Amero and NAU has made US mainstream now. It's totally and completely over.
The US is no more.
Waste no more time on debating useless economy models created by the diseased west world rapists to hide behind their true economy model: WAR!!!! ENDLESS EVIL RACIST WAR through drugs, maiming, destruction, poverty, and theft.
I hereby call on Africa to rise and go to the fucking EU and take everything that's yours back. That's all the diamonds, all the stuffed animals the EU scum have on the walls of their castles. That's all the gold. That's all the gems decorating their vatican holy roman crowns in every fucking city of the EU. None of it belongs to the vermin!
I call on all the people of the freeworld to go and settle the debt with the pirate US slaver murderer. I call on Koreans to go settle their 3M human murder deficit it has with the US baboon. I call on Brazil to rise and force the US baboon to settle the debt it has in destruction of the Amazon basin. I call on the dying people locked up in camps in Johansburg to rise and go to the US AIDS inventors who have tested the disease on you and your children for 20 years now. I call on Canadians to stand tall and fight the Bush annexation and theft of your great nation, of your children to float the baboon animal. I call on the heroic Mexican people to stand against the US aggression, and racist labour discrimination and hostile corporate take over of your beautiful country and coastline. I call on the people of Colombia to go to the US and settle their debt they have over the drug plundering and biological warfare that's cost your beautiful nation its riches. I call on Russians, the bravest of all peoples on the planet, to settle the score they have with the west and revenge the 30 million and 1000 cities the first Bush (Prescott Bush) aggression of 1941 has cost you. I call on all the west dwellers to fucking god damn it wake the fuck up you stupid sons of bitches and rise against your evil child murdering governments! I call on Brian Haw and confer upon him the highest knightship honours any human can ever be bestowed. I call on the Vietnamese to settle their 3.5 M murder score with the US. I call on Cambodia to settle its bombing score with the US when Nixon dropped bombs on your children at night just for their baboon fucking fun they have in the Devil Ovulation Office when they're not sticking cigars up some slave labour cunts like the evil Yugoslavian murderer Clinton. I call on all the brave and free people of the former Yugoslavia to reestablish the pan South Slavic nation Od Vardara Pa Do Triglava. Od Djerapa Pa Do Jadrana. And settle the score for the US deliberate murders of your children in the 90s with the disgusting US baboon. I call on Japan to cease to be a whore suffering US military rape and settle its 1M death score with the US when it deliberately targeted civilian targets with nuclear bombs! I call on Japan to lead the world in stripping the US and the west of nuclear military and energy power because they not only have these WMDs but also have used them TWICE against civilians. I call on all people here to stop any and all debates with the yank cretinous vermin and LET JUBILATION REIGN!
I do not call on the yank baboon dirty monkey. Let it eat Bush.
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by CANUKISTAN_VIEW on 17.08.2007 [04:02 ]
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The central bankers are desperately trying to save western fiat currencies as it the basis of their criminal power against humanity!
They have made available HALF A TRILLION US "DOLORES IN CASH" in just few days BUT THE CRISIS ALTHOUGH AT AN EARLY STAGE ALREADY REQUIRES THREE TO FIVE MORE TRILLIONS! And then another 5 or 10 trillions and then another 20 to 50 trillions! THE TOTAL WESTERN IMPERIAL FIAT CURRENCY SCAM IS IN THE ORDER OF 450 TRILLIONS!
And guest what? The USA economy size is around 11 trillions and the total planet is just about 60 trillions.
SO WHERE THE F*CK ARE THEY GOING TO GET THE OTHER 400 TRILLIONS?
I can my head THAT THE CENTRAL BANKERS MAY PUT AT THE MOST ANOTHER 500 BILLIONS OR EVEN ONE TRILLION - But that will be as far as they will go AND IT WILL NOT BE ENOUGH TO PREVENT THE COLLAPSE OF THE CRIMINAL WESTERN FINANCIAL SYSTEM.
New development of the crisis
What is a happening is more and more revelations of credit losses – due at first to home mortgage derivatives (2 to 5 $trillion worth), then, revelations now that the corporate paper (bond) market is freezing, (KKR seeks to delay short term commercial paper) then, LBO’s are now frozen, now the largest US mortgage lender, Countrywide, may become insolvent – as they cannot sell mortgages and are being forced to hold them. Bloomberg puts out an article that ‘credit markets are frozen.’ What was first a mortgage related credit crisis is now spreading across many other major credit markets. The central banks will not have the horsepower to shore up all of these at once. The continuing stock sell off world wide is showing that.
h ttp://www.kitco.com/ind/Laird/aug162007.html
SO PLEASE LETS CONGRATULATE THOSE POOR USA FELLOWS THAT WERE FOULED BY THEIR GREEDY BANKERS THAT DESTROYED THEIR LIFE BUT NOW THEY ROYALLY F*CKING THE WESTERN SYSTEM. Revenge is sweet as they have triggered the biggest economic tsunami of all time! It is not USA alone! UK is coming next and it will be even worst! And all of western countries plus ALL THOSE THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES THAT ARE STILL UNDER WORLD BANK AND IMF CONTROL!
So those western European monarchs that 500 years ago looted the world, killed 13 millions out of 14 million INCAS; killed 34 millions MAYAS-AZTECS out of 35 millions! Got Chinese population under opium for 150 years; and India, etc. .....These mother fuckers knows they cannot stop their imminent collapse. THIS IS WHY THEY CREATED 9-11 THEMSELVES WITH SOME Saudis and Egyptian PATSIES; this self-made terrorist attack was to justify the launching of an all out war against rich countries in natural resources!
The year 2000 was supposed to be the Y2K COMPUTER VIRUS SCAM were missiles and planes will go wild! But it did not work only because PUTIN TOOK CONTROL OF RUSSIA GOVERNMENT and he would not be fouled! So in 2001 was the 9-11 attack; this time it worked but just for a little while!
Remember years 2000-2001 marked the second highest point for the US dollar and therefore the lowest price for all commodities produced by third world countries! AFTER THAT – IT WAS EXPECTED A SEVERE DECLINE OF THE DOLLAR AND THE INFLATION CAUSED BY THE COMMODITY SECULAR BOOM MARKET. This western imperial crisis also was aggravated by the economic explosion of China and India and the incredible came back of Russia as a power nation. So during these last five years we have seen EMERGING THE THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES as commodity producers and at the same the DECLINE OF THE WESTERN IMPERIAL POWERS.
THE WESTERN RULERS KNEW BACK THEN THE CRISIS WAS COMING AND THEY TRIED TO GO FURTHER IN THEIR GLOBALIZATION. They failed in Venezuela, Russia, Iran and many other countries that STOPPED THE NEW EUROPEAN WAVE OF LOOTING THEIR RESOURCES. Thus THE ONLY WAY TO STOP their decline or to delay it WAS TO CREATE WW III OR THE 30 YEARS WAR ON TERROR or new crusade as bush called initially! This is why some neocons were saying history will be good to Bush if he would have prevailed in saving the imperial western system. BUT THE BASTARD IS FAILING – thanks to his imbecile level and the incompetent zionazis that could not foul the rest of the world – like France at that crucial time.
But just three years later and thanks to the Iraqi people THESE WESTERN IMPERIAL POWERS ARE BEING KICKED OUT AND DEFEATED! Curiously, Iraq - the cradle of civilization is once again SAVING HUMAN SPECIES FROM DARKNESS AND PERHAPS EXTINCTIONS!
HUMANITY IS ONCE AGAIN PREVAILING! And the question is what are we going to do with these criminal rulers and their stooges like Blair, Bush, Cheney et al when the dust starts settling?
CHEERS FROM CANADA - PEACE PEACE
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by Atheist on 17.08.2007 [05:13 ]
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Maybe the Senators’ failure to pass the bill, Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2007, on June 28, 2007, is connected to the central banks’ painful reaction which happened almost two months later. It would not happen if most Senators voted on it. The vote was 46-53. The anti-immigration activists were largely responsible to make the prevention possible by making some threatening calls and releasing some Senators’ home addresses on Internet.
Many financial players in the inner circle mistakenly expected that it would pass without suffering a serious distraction from American citizens. The bill meant to grant amnesty to 12-20 million illegal immigrants in America in order to prevent the subprime scandal which initialized 6 weeks later. This is just my theory.
The Undocumented Blogger ( http ://undocumentedblogger.blogspot.com/2007/08/subprime-mortgage-defaults-being-driven.html ): “Just who are these borrowers that are defaulting on their mortgage loans at a nearly a 50% rate? Leonardo Simpser of the Hispanic National Mortgage Association (NHMA) says that Hispanic first-time buyers constitute the fastest-growing segment of the subprime mortgage market. He also says that many Latinos, especially recent immigrants, have low FICO credit scores or no scores at all and are less creditworthy than they are in reality.”
“Mexico peso dropped to 5-month low as the subprime concerns mount” ( http ://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=a7N3xvo_xZ8A )
In 1983, the devaluation of peso caused the explosion of US-owned factories along the border. This was called “maquiladoras” which was confined to the northmost Mexico. Corporations closed U.S. factories and relocated them to Mexico (maquiladoras) to take advantage of cheaper costs. It attracted many Mexicans who traveled from the south of maquiladoras. But ten years later, those same corporations closed their factories again and relocated them to Asia which could provide even lower labor costs. This instigated massive illegal immigration in U.S. as U.S. government exactly planned and wished by opening the Mexican-American border “secretly” without acknowledging American citizens and seeking for their approval. This sounds like a major criminal operation at work. Source: Deborah White: http ://usliberals.about.com/od/immigration/a/IllegalImmi_2.htm
In 1994, NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) was passed. That same year and the following year (1995) Mexico started to massively privatize its banking and telecommunication industries. This action created new millionaires and billionaires. In 2002, Mexico ranked 4th in the world in billionaires behind the US, Japan, and Germany. Source: Deborah White
Carlos Slim Helú, a Mexican businessman, is the epitome of the dirty players. On August 8th, 2007, Carlos Slim Helu already overtook Bill Gates as the world’s richest man. His fortune is now $59 billion while Bill Gates’ net worth is $58 billion. Unbelievably! So many poor Mexicans and that rich guy! He owns Telmex which controls 90% of the Mexican landside telephone market. Source: http ://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Slim_Hel%C3%BA
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by dit on 17.08.2007 [05:27 ]
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esteemed members of this forum for all the optimistic viewson the collapse of the imperialistic parasites. There is one area of concern though. Many of you may not be aware but the former colonial powers and the US baboons(as piuotr would say) are colonising africa denovo. I am sure readers of this forum know that the so called DARFUR crisis is FAKE, as fake as 911 or anything else that comes from the west). I hope our African brothers wake up and realise their situation.
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by dit on 17.08.2007 [05:35 ]
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this copy and pasting of this crap and lies can work on american type forums where people cannot think for themselves. First of all the borders you are speaking of are a figment of your and every descendent of the criminal anglos and spanish colonists' imagination. That land does not belong to you. These descendent of the original peoples that you are trying to keep out should come and put you and your ilk in jail and feed you lard all day.
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by Princeof1000enemies on 17.08.2007 [06:09 ]
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re-colonization:
It has still, so many resources left to expoit.
The Band near the equatorial longitudes are (predicted) to be future farmland. The ozone won't be as depleted there as in other areas.
I believe that the grand master plan is to grab the valuable land, depopulate so called 'undesirables', and repopulate with genetically ordained desirables.
Anybody out there have good survival tips? The next thirty years will definitely require more than just training you get in a military or mafia.
Self sustainability is one, in terms of food and water and such, but there is a certain amount of WEALTH needed for this. SO what is the proletarian to do?
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by Princeof1000enemies on 17.08.2007 [06:21 ]
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the real objective, as I'm sure you all know, is the RESOURCES.
Unfortunately, this game will not be restricted to earth. The Chinese, and the US ( and I'm sure Russia is posturing as well ;)
are jockying for the Helium 3 resources on the moon.
And Mars?
I hate to say this, but DEPRESSION may bring about the necessary drop in consumption levels that are needed in the west. Unfortunately this realignment will be directed under the likes of BUSH, neocons, BROWN, and the FED, ECB. I sincerely doubt that the 'reduction in consumption' will be implemented in a humane way.
Has anything else about these wars, and sanctions been humane?
Yes, the baboon watches it on the telly, not realizing that the same WOLF is at his own door.
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by Draco_Annie on 17.08.2007 [06:32 ]
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I am impressed at the articulate fashion of this debate. At long last, people are really addressing important issues in an intelligent manner, especially the role of the MSM in this whole mess. I just want to say that I have reproduced the article, along with the first comments on Greater Bravda at ht tp:// bravda.bozarts.org
We are mostly a group of Canadian posters, it is a small board but with an interesting volume of readers. We are all concerned at this coming weekend's invasion of our territory by the US military, the walls/checkpoints being erected, innocent resident's cars thorough searches and of our sovereignty being threatened to accommodate the US with Canada's cheap resources being exploited by Mexico's cheap labour for US' sole benefit and profits.
The Canadian Peace Alliance has already been banned for a radius of 25 km from the site, but unions and bus/train/air loads of Canadians will be flocking to Ottawa this weekend. If blood must flow so be it, but we will never forgive the US military on our soil. Never.
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by poiuytr on 17.08.2007 [09:43 ]
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With ya, every word. Fantastic stuff, man! We need to publish it all. It's such a waste to just provide the degree of your acumen, knowledge, literary finesse I 'sometimes' lack, just to have it scrolled off. That's number 1 thing!
Second: The credit debt people that are precipitating the final stages of the DOLORES (fantastic word swashbuckling) are in deep trouble, I fear. You see, they're not walking away from it. Bush has plans for them.
He's made it illegal to go bankrupt and wipe the debt for baboons. Only his cronies can do that in the US, which is the next wave of mayhem. Watch banks just going, oh sorry, your account??? Oh, it's been confiscated under ### law to pay the ### law protected creditors. All baboons are gonna be left with their naked rumps.
But the debt people are gonna be carted off to camps to work off the debt. I would almost bet on that.
Lots of people feel that the 800 concentration camps are for the rebellious baboons but I think Chertoff's title for this network of camps says it all. They call them "Public Forced Labour Detention Centres". I think it's for the indebted baboon. So I'm with ya that they're taking the bastard down but they're gonna get it in the camps. If you do a bit of math on this, given they have some 15M cots (2006 Bush own data) and the 2007 increase of capacity as per Bush orders, you can figure how many are in insolvent debt and then you get your "turnover" concentration camp rate. NOT PRETTY. It's a baboon, I know, but... it's gonna be a total slaughterhouse.
And the rebellious ones are gonna just get killed by city blockades, relocations, and so on. Hence the exec orders and militias and so on. Bush is even now arming religious US fiend groups to do the 'god' work of herding children into camps and areas under siege.
But is any baboon doing anything beside being wedged in their sofa with the snout sunk deep in some bucket full of aspertame enhanced lard cheese imitation puffs and a buzzing dildo still stuck in his rump from last night's jungle orgy?
THIRD: What's the vibe on the streets in Canada? The annexation has made the mainstream US news now. I would expect all Canadians to understand that Bush is not just the baboon's problems but theirs. What's the general feel there?
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by poiuytr on 17.08.2007 [09:55 ]
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Thank you for not being afraid of the yelping baboon to be associated with me. Any expression of solidarity is greatly appreciated by me!
Yes, Africa.
That's why I call on it to rise! In 2006, US was caught doing medical testing on children. Africa must rise, collect itself, and not only defend its children and territories but go get the score settled. These must be the deepest wounds on earth ever inflicted by the germanic barbarian saxon vatican freckly child killing bush beast and they must be settled.
Bush is definitely going to Africa. Even has set up a special war department for the attack. But Putin's there too. My read is that Bush's Paraguay hideaway was a ruse. This NWO evil is going to Africa to hide and regroup, once the west perishes while plundering it as they did South Am till just now.
But I think Putin's working to meet him there. The same way his weapons in the hands of the local brave defenders of their nations met him in Lebanon, Afghanistan, and Iraq.
N'skosi Sikeleli Afrika!
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by Passing_By on 17.08.2007 [13:56 ]
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I remember watching testimony of Bernanke before congress on MSNBC back in february, when one of the congressman's asked him about future lack of liquidity and what was his solution. At that moment transmision cuts and focus is shifted to some analyst. So someone knew exactly what was going to happen.
Looking at these credits and to whom they were issued, I just can't escape thought that this was all PLANNED. Yes, planned.
These credits were issued without any check even to people who could not repay it in their wildest dreams. Mexican workers who were working for 400 dollars a week, were given hundreds of thousands of dollars.
And no one could not see what was going to happen after??
Don't think so.
Look at the world after 9-11. US invaded Afghanistan, Iraq. Built there enormous bases, with military presence of 200 000 soldiers. Now this "surge" in Iraq is only means of justifying buildup of forces before invasion on Iran. I hate to say it but in late september, begining of october Iran will be overrun by US forces. And they will deploy their army in Iran. So ends beginning.
Beginning of what, you say.
Look at the world after Soviet Union. US seemingly has total power in the world. But it hasn't. Russia still owns 10,000 nuclear missiles. Enough to destroy US many times over. It's only obstacle for US in achieving TOTAL domination over the rest of the world. You may argue that there is China and it will counterpose american threat but chinese army is still light years behind american. In case of conflict, chinese army would be annihilated even before they reach american coast.
To completely destroy Russian threat they first drove Russia into poverty, investing in Russia only ~10b dollars. All that state-of-art military equipment needs money for maintenance. So Russian military was disintegrating. At the same time US military budget was approaching 600b. Talk about disparity. When Russia is weekend enough they would either peacefully break her apart (Kosovo was to be test ground for this unilateral state declaration, model to be used for Siberia), or to military extinguish russian military once and for all. But then Putin appeared(backed by former KGB) and Russia finds itself in new renaissance . New US military doctrine is PREEMPTIVE strike. US won't allow Russia to become superpower again. They will strike her before.
And thats what 9-11 and this "War on Terror" was used for, to strategically place military units. Look at the map of the world. Where are the new bases of US AFTER 9-11. They are strategically encircling Russia. And Putin and his KGB comrades know this, but their list of allies is extremely short. So we see Putin eagerly welcoming Chinese army for military excersise this week. He hopes in future conflict to have China on his side.
And this is where ALL THIS TALK ABOUT GLOBAL RECESSION comes into play. How can you convince people to wage war against nuclear armed state, which has enough power to incinerate entire planet? Only if you create unimaginable crisis, even bigger than depression of 1929.
In my opinion it was very well known about impending market recession, about stock fall, and upcoming crisis. Even time is very carefully planed.
CANUKISTAN_VIEW said, and I trust him, that full power of crisis will be felt in october. Iraqi parliament will have to report to congress in mi-september about failure of US policies in Iraq, ofcourse Iran will be blamed and attacked in late september, beginning of october. Just in time for BIG economic crunch. Imagine what would happen if sinking of 2-3 tankers in Hormuz Strait prevent flow of oil. Unimaginable crisis. But US doesn't depend on Golf oil, so they won't be hit so hard, but everyone else will be. And in my opinion this would be trigger for WWIII.
We are not seeing DECLINE OF THE WESTERN IMPERIAL POWERS but in fact this is all deliberately induced crisis to ensure PERPETUAL RULE OF WESTERN POWERS. After Russian nuclear arsenal is gone absolutely no one on Earth will be able to stand against them. EVER.
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by Syrian on 17.08.2007 [14:22 ]
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1991 called, it wants its circumstances back. USA has no chance in hell of successfully invading Iran — even they admit it. All they talk about is harassing it from the air, and terror striking its civilian population by destroying their power stations. But even they admit that they cannot do this, without putting their own interests on the line.
Also, the encircling of Russia is failing because momentum is being lost. All the terror strikes against it, has failed to bring Russia on its knees. If anything its bolstered the local population — unfortunately against the wrong people, but bolstered nonetheless.
While its true that this entire thing was planned — by design of the bankers who run the country, its not all favourable for them. For instance, the destruction of their medium of exchange will dimish the west's power worldwide. The only power they have is from their toilet paper money. When people start refusing it, they cannot bribe anyone, no traitor would want to join up the USAns. In basic terms, their reign of evil will end.
But what will they gain you wonder? An enslaved population of baboons (using our good friend poiuytr's words) who will work to death for free. They're all in debt, in debt until their MORTuary AGE. It is only through enslavement of their own population and the world's that the USA became a world power. Its the only thing they know and control, and many a time has their currencies turned into worthless paper.
But none of us care what happens in that country. They have a good person to steer them in the right direction (Ron Paul), but their too stupid or too lethargic to see that. Even if they do, the bankers will make him feel their presence.
The USA is finished and done for, and the bankers have already scurried out of it making sure not to leave drop of their wealth behind. Disintegrated piece by piece, its only a matter of time until Aztlán is reclaimed. The North American Union (probably about to be mentioned by the three "amigos") is a last ditched effort which will falter and fail.
USAns will degenerate into the primates that they truly are. The worthy ones have already left or are in the process of leaving, resulting in brain drain. Nuclear weapons (triggers) need upkeep, upkeep needs technical skill, which need a good education and talented people. All things which the USA can say goodbye to. So, the world can finally breathe a sigh of relief as the USA's nuclear arsenal fizzles to become worthless. Then the requiem for all the people this disgusting state has murdered, will be composed over their tainted soil.
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by Throw_Off_The_Killer on 17.08.2007 [15:49 ]
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Thank you poiytr and CANUCKISTAN_VIEW, for your most excellent analysis and commentary.
I must admit that my own good feelings today are a bit tempered by anxiety. I think the chances of an agressive, irrational and very destructive psychological response to the impending humiliating collapse of the West is quite high.
I hope I am wrong.
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by CANUKISTAN_VIEW on 17.08.2007 [15:59 ]
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Many statements and thoughts posted here are absolutely right.
DIT – about AFRICA. Yes Africa is going again under a new wave of genocides and looting from Western European Monarchies and those former empires, that are still if not ruled then controlled by the same “blue-blood greedy suckers” of yesterday. We must understand that FRENCH AGENTS among others from the west KILLED MOST OF THE AFRICAN POLITICAL LEADERS AND FEW SURVIVED that did not obey imperial European dictums or did not accept to be bribed; shameless France today protect those old loyal dogs that brutally ruled their colonies. Additionally USA man-made AIDS was targeted for Africa in the most criminal and abdominal hope that their population would be reduced to 10%; the Spaniards did exactly that in South America but with their diseases unknown to these civilizations like venereal, small-pox, . This facilitate the control of the population and the looting of their land and resources at will. But then in the late 1950s came the amazing Cuban revolution in South America and a great man CHE GUEVARA, a medical doctor that went to Africa to help the independence movements. According to Nelson Mandela in his last visit to La Habana, the liberation of South Africa and the entire African continent is indebt to the Cuban people. Today the western empires need Africa again to keep their frivolous glamour and exuberance as they cannot survive without colonies and the exploitation of third world resources. Today NATO, their international terrorist forces, were given the excuse to go and kill anywhere in the world for the sake of saving the endless western European monarchs greed. However, the neighboring countries are not allowed to help their brothers in need like Erithrea- Somalia but Ethiopia’s European lackeys are allowed to go and kill in the name of NATO and their European majesties. Similarly in Afghanistan; Pakistan people cannot help their brothers being all Pashtums but the Norwegian and German thugs thousands of miles away can do! Another amazing moral value from the west! THIS WESTERN CRAP MUST STOP – AND PEOPLE MUST AS NEIGHBORS, REGIONS AND CONTINENTS RAISED UP AGAINST THESE CRIMINALS.
PRINCEOF1000ENEMIES – about RESOURCES You are 100% right when you said that money is the smoke screen. Fiat money is created by the rulers to exchange TANGIBLE GOODS AND REAL SERVICES for just papers. People accept that because they have faith that tomorrow they will be OK if not even better that yesterday. But the astute rulers through their bankers keep stealing from you the values by taxing your papers in what they called INFLATION; and they do this with such witchcraft like Greenscam that people flocked for them. So ONE US dollar back in 1920 is now worth just FOUR CENTS when adjusted for inflation; but you do not know that and you are not supposed that. You should be aiming to become a millionaire or even a billionaire but just on paper because the rulers will not let you take over their wealth IN FABULOUS CASTLES, GOLD, SILVER, DIAMONDS, GEM STONES, SUMPTUOUS JEWELRY, ANCIENT TREASURES, MASTERPIECES OF ART, VAST AGRICULTURAL LANDS, MINES, OIL RESOURCES, WATER and for most part STOLEN FROM THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES AND FROM THEIR SUBJECTS THROUGH ‘ENGINEERED INFLATION’. Thus the European monarchs and their bankers spend their money ON REAL TANGIBLE ASSETS and they use the papers to foul their servants, pay their armies and go around the world changing papers for resources. AND WHEN THOSE THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES DO NOT WANT TO SELL THEIR RESOURCES FOR PAPERS then they are declared these days as terrorists, radicals or extremists as in the past atheists, heretics, Islamic, diabolic, evils. In other words, same shit but slightly adapted to ‘modern’ times.
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