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Iran's KOLCHUGA antenna device passively detects stealth planes 800 Km away
By: sealion on: 22.09.2006 [21:25 ] (24645 reads)
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Iran's KOCHULGA antenna device passively detects stealth planes 800 Km away, making the billions of Dollars spent on stealth technology and the AWACS planes (600km detection range) utterly useless. In addition, being passive, it cannot be detected, so the targeted plane(s) are unaware of detection and have nothing to home in to destroy the equipment made by Ukraine....
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This is a dream come TRUE for the defense of Iran against the Barbaric Usans....
Ukraine sells Kolchuga to Iran
By Robert Karniol JDW Asia-Pacific Bureau Chief
Bangkok
The Kolchuga is intended to detect the take-off and formation of aircraft groups at ranges beyond those of existing radar, as well as determine the course and speed of targets while designating them for air-defence systems. It can identify aerial targets through their emissions and identify the mode of aircraft weapon control systems.
Three Kolchuga stations would normally operate along with a command vehicle to provide accurate triangulation on a target. The system is claimed to have a range of 600 km (narrow beam) or 200 km (wide beam) along a front of 1,000 km.
It is not known how many Kolchuga stations Iran has acquired. However, sources told Jane's that each costs about USD25 million, with deliveries either recent or imminent.
http://www.janes.com/defence/news/jd...0922_1_n.shtml
When the newly independent Ukraine that had only just survived a severe economic crisis, developed an advanced passive radiolocation complex, it was a severe blow to the Americans, who were so sure of their domination in the air thanks to their stealth planes. On the one hand, the advantages of the attacker’s “invisibility” were reduced to zero. On the other, passive radiolocation, i.e., the absence of the radar’s own radiation, radically reduced the disadvantage of insufficient secrecy. Besides, an attacking object detected by a passive radar is never aware of its detection and so has no reasons to activate its own defenses. It means that the most important advantage is now in the hands of the air defense, especially considering the impression produced on experts by the latest Kolchuga modification.
- A complex consisting of three Kolchuga radar stations makes it possible to spot ground and surface targets and trace their movement within a radius of 600 km (air targets at the 10 km altitude - up to 800 km), which makes an effective early warning air defense system;
- The Kolchuga station is equipped with five meter-, decimeter-, and centimeter-range aerials, which provide for high radio sensitivity within a 110dB/W - 155 dB/W swath, depending on the frequency;
- A parallel 36-channel preset receiver makes it possible to spot instantly, identify, and classify signals from any source with unlimited input density within the entire frequency range from 130MHz to 18,000MHz;
- All radio objects are spotted and identified automatically, a powerful computer digitizing and identifying targets by comparing their parameters with the available databank, results being shown on a field display;
- Special inhibitory sorters omit up to 24 interfering signals, and tracking sorters make it possible to synchronously sort out and track signals from 32 targets;
- All normal operations require only one operator (two other operators work on a shift basis for 24-hour duty), who controls the station through dialog with a PC.
Since the whole U.S. non-nuclear military power hinges on stealth technologies, the prospect of worldwide proliferation of the unique Ukrainian radar systems definitely runs counter to U.S. interests. They were first demonstrated at the SOFEX-2000 arms expo in Jordan. That is, probably, why such close interest, especially from the United States, catalyzed the notorious “Kolchuga scandal”.
The Ukrainian scientific, engineering, and design solutions in the field of passive radiolocation, embodied in the Kolchuga complex, are what is eating U.S. designers and government functionaries, who are responsible for stealth technologies in modern armaments. Such technologies are meant to fulfill every general’s dream: to make his aircraft, ships, tanks, and other hardware invisible to enemies. The geometrical shape may be changed (like in the F-117 or B-2) to disperse a reflected signal from active radars, or there may be various wave-absorbing coatings to transform active signals into heat energy. But no modern military aircraft, tank, or ship can exist without its own radar. Without a radiating aerial it is simply “blind”. That is why every aircraft, ship, and ground-based radar complex has active radiolocation devices. These devices are always on, emitting radio signals. Each specific type of hardware emits signals within different parameters. Consequently, a machine on which an emitting radar is mounted can be identified.
Competitors Lagging Far Behind
Such a promising trend as passive radiolocation is certainly of great interest to highly developed countries. But the Ukrainian Kolchuga radar, with all its technical and operational characteristics taken together, has no analogs anywhere in the world. And in its basic parameters it surpasses all known means of the same or similar purpose.
The 800-km detection range has been achieved only by the Ukrainian Kolchuga. The best the U.S. AWACS can do is 600 km, while the ground-based complexes Vera (Czech Republic) and Vega (Russia) can reach out up to 400 km - half what the Ukrainian complex can reach. The Kolchuga’s lower limit of the working frequency range is 130MHz and is the lowest of all analogs. For the AWACS it is 2,000 MHz, for the Vera it is 850MHz, for the Vega it is 200MHz.
But where the Kolchuga has the greatest advantages is its ability to identify accurately radio objects thanks to unique algorithms and hi-tech equipment. In particular, the mean square deviation in frequency measurement - the most informative parameters for identifying types of spotted radio objects - is 0.4MHz in the Kolchuga. It is 0.5MHz - 1.0MHz in the Russian Vega, 1.0MHz in the U.S. AWACS, and as much as 3.6MHz - 21.0MHz in the Czech Vera. The maximal duration of detected impulses, measured by the Kolchuga, is 999.0 microseconds, versus 99.9 microseconds for the AWACS and 200 microseconds for the Vera. And the impulse repetition period can be measured by the Kolchuga up to the maximum of 79,999 microseconds, while no analogs can perform such measurements longer than 10,000 microseconds. As a result, the number of detected radio objects that the Kolchuga can classify is practically unlimited, which can not be said about any known analogs. The Ukrainian station has advanced algorithms and software programs for analyzing, systematizing, generalizing, and storing information about all radio objects and parameters of their signals. And the data already collected in the database can be used to identify newly detected radio objects and can be correlated with data obtained from other reconnaissance sources.
It should be noted that the Kolchuga’s undeniable advantages are not accidental or temporary. The Ukrainian product is head and shoulders above all American, Russian, French, Czech, or Brazilian developments in this field. But those who developed and made this unique product aren’t resting on their laurels. They continue to work.
Several contracts for exporting Kolchuga complexes have been fulfilled, but that is well below the export potential of this product, which already has numerous prospective buyers.
http://www.hi-tech.org.ua/Ukraine/offshore-outsourcing-in-ukraine/publication/kolchuga-confidence/index.html
by Q' on 23.09.2006 [06:41 ]
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The geometrical shape may be changed (like in the F-117 or B-2) to disperse a reflected signal from active radars, or there may be various wave-absorbing coatings to transform active signals into heat energy.
One seems to forgot so-called steath aircraft F-117 were shot down before using an old AAA. It was an utterly embarrassement for the USAF .
www.aeronautics.ru/f117down.htm
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by gmmonko on 23.09.2006 [07:29 ]
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...than I will convert to Islam! Obviously all the testing of USAF weapons was against unarmed civilians, houses or infrastructure. Once the United Skunks soldiers in Iraq are killed all the should wipe the NATO - Nazi American Torture Organization - in Afghanistan and there it is finally: peace on earth. Israel will not survive anyway - low breeding rates and incredible diseases amongst the population, caused by an almost incestious inbreeding.
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by picard-fortune-500 on 23.09.2006 [09:10 ]
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Does anyone know if it can detect ground hugging cruise missiles? I'm sure if the US launches an attack on Iran these missiles will be in the first wave.
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by picard-fortune-500 on 23.09.2006 [11:12 ]
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"Frequently referred to as Kolchuga Radar, the system is not really a
radar, but an ESM system comprising three or four receivers..."
(They define ESM as :
"In military telecommunications, the term electronic warfare support
measures (ESM) is the division of electronic warfare involving actions
taken under direct control of an operational commander to search for,
intercept, identify, and locate sources of radiated electromagnetic
energy for the purpose of immediate threat recognition.)
"Like any ESM system, it is of doubtful use against stealth aircraft,
which are designed to operate without emitting any RF signals."
It would be great against Israeli aircraft, however, as the Israelis
have no stealth aircraft as far as I know.
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by sealion on 23.09.2006 [16:24 ]
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...So, what would you expect...
ht tp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolchuga_passive_sensor
Here is the opinion of an Ukrainian Air Force officer, who flies Mig-29 and knows the equipment well...
QUOTE: It will pick up any of the stealth aircraft, they just will be closer than the others. The triangulation of Kolchuga helps to get different angles of the RCS of the stealth aircarft. This makes a bigger target on the radar screen. While the F-22 may be RCS of .05m head on, Kolchuga will get 2m RCS by hitting the F-22 from different angles therby making her cross section bigger.
ht tp://www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=4495
QUOTE: Your western nations have not had the oportunity to "counter" it as they have never faced it. Ukraine makes some of the most sophisticated weapons in the world and are more than capable to defeat US systems.
ht tp://www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=4474
Global Security, a US specialized Website, even admits the capability:
QUOTE: The relatively cheap Ukrainian Kolchuga radar station, which is able to detect and identify practically all known active radio devices mounted on ground, airborne, or marine objects, actually cancels out all those billions of dollars spent on stealth-based armaments.
ht tp://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/ukraine/kolchuga.htm
It's the REAL THING, guys and the US will soon learn at its expense, if it proceeds with attacking Iran...
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by kamau on 23.09.2006 [22:49 ]
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...I'm getting a hard-on reading about this system and its possibilities.
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by MetalAge on 23.09.2006 [23:17 ]
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sealion, I believe the Ukrainian Air Force officer you mention is confused, for he mentions the RCS (Radar Cross Section) of the F-22 and he thinks Kolchuga is "hitting the F-22 from different angles". This is nonsense. Kolchuga is passive, meaning it does not work like a radar by hitting the target with bursts of radiation, but it's a passive listener to electromagnetic waves emitted by the target itself (from its own electronic devices on board, etc.). Since the STEALTH does not emit any radiation at all, I wonder how Kolchuga can see it. It could probably use auxiliary no-Kolchuga emitters scattered on the ground, ready to be sacrificed and hoping the STEALTH RCS would scatter some radiation, but this is my own speculation.
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by phil_s6 on 24.09.2006 [02:24 ]
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out of the sky and knock their superior minded buts back to dictator Bushes land.
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by TerraHertz on 24.09.2006 [03:33 ]
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Sounds great!
One thing about passive signal capture and analysis, is that nothing stops you from transmitting illumination pulses from _other_ sites, and picking up the reflections at your capture site. So Iran could install lines of small, simple radar transmitters across its territory, and hide a few KOLCHUGAs wherever they like on a roughly 800Km grid, and _no_ plane, even stealth fighters with their radars turned off, is going to get through. I believe thats the scenario the Air Force officer refers to, with 'hitting the F-22 from different angles.'
The only down side here, is that the ZUSUKs will be aware Iran has this. Pity. I'd much rather see them fly into a completely unexpected trap.
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by TerraHertz on 24.09.2006 [03:37 ]
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How does it communicate the identified targetting information to anti-air missile batteries and command/control systems?
Hopefully via optical fibre nets. If it uses radio for that, it still stands out as a target.
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by TerraHertz on 24.09.2006 [03:47 ]
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Hello to everyone here via whatreallyhappened.com. You should drop by more often. Good site this, and anyone can register for free and post comments; also articles. The open forums and posting policy here add a whole new dimension to news aggregation sites like whatreallyhappened.com, rense.com, and such.
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by Serbian on 24.09.2006 [03:56 ]
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Not 100% sure about this, but I think the Kolchuga can detect the radio waves emitted by a jet's engine. The exhaust contains plasma which consits of charged particles traveling at very high velocity. Whenever you have charged particles in motion, whether through a wire or the air, you create an electromagnetic field. And that's what the Kolchuga detects. So anything that uses a jet engine can be detected, regardless of whether it has an active radar emitter or not. So stealth planes can most certainly be detected in this manner.
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by Iranian-Shi'ite on 24.09.2006 [04:32 ]
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Are there any sources other than Jane's.
I had read elsewhere that Iran had created other means of detecting stealth aircraft.
One means of attaining stealth is to design the aircraft such that it deflects radar at angles that do not get bounced back to the radar.
However, by placing radar receivers at verious locations, Iran is able to make quick calcualtions as to where a stealth aircraft is by triangulating the radar bounced back.
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by Serbian on 24.09.2006 [04:48 ]
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During the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, the Serbs used old model long range radar to detect stealth bombers. These older models emitted radiation of much longer wavelength. Longer wavelengths allowed for increased range, but very poor resolution. This type of radar was normally only used for early warning and not for targetting. However, these long wavelengths are not absorbed by a stealth fighter's skin like shorter wavelengths are. So the Serbs used them to detect and target stealth fighters. Even though the resolution is really poor, it can still track a stealth fighter if it gets close enough. This is how they shot down that F-117.
This could very well be the means that Iran has to detect stealth aircraft.
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by Iranian-Shi'ite on 24.09.2006 [04:56 ]
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. . . once you opt for stealth design, you decrease stability and performance.
Stealth coatings present a host of other problems. To be effective, the plane's surface must be kept perfectly slick. Exposure to rain or hail can cause nicks and scratches that dramatically increase the craft's radar signature.
Furthermore, the Pentagon's supposedly invisible stealth aircraft fly into action with the same radar-jamming escort planes that accompany conventional warplanes. Demand for jammers was so high during the Kosovo conflict that the Pentagon had to redeploy electronic warfare planes from Turkey, where they are being used in the ongoing air campaign against Iraq.
The Stealth Program was designed to defeat the high-frequency radars used extensively by the former Soviet Union. But stealth planes are relatively easy to spot with older air-defense radars that use low frequencies.
see more here:
h ttp://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2000/01/stealth.html
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by sealion on 24.09.2006 [05:39 ]
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An Article From Jane's Inteligence Digest 02 May 2002
Ukraine: arms for Iraq?
Kuchma's meeting with Malev followed Ukraine's participation in the SOFEX-2000 arms exhibition held in Amman, Jordan on 17-19 April 2000. Malev headed the Ukrainian delegation which exhibited the T-80UD tank; an upgraded T-72 tank; a BTR-94 APC; an 1L220-V fire-control radar (Zoopark) and - most importantly - the Kolchuga radar system.
After the great interest shown in the Kolchuga system by Middle Eastern clients it was upgraded. It now has the capability to evaluate land and air targets at 600-800km. What concerns the US and its allies - and the reason why Saddam Hussein was so keen to obtain it - is Kolchuga's ability to detect US Stealth aircraft.
ht tp://www.janes.com/regional_news/europe/news/jid/jid020502_1_n.shtml
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by Syrian on 24.09.2006 [06:12 ]
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Or "checkmate", in western talk. I was aware of this radar system from Ukraine, but I wasn't aware that Iran had any.
The point is not being able to shoot down stealth aircrafts, there are other means to do that. The power of this system is it's ability to evade radar itself! The problem we have with air defense is, usually it's the first target to be hit, we have counter-measures which I won't discuss but they aren't completely effective.
BUT remember, the bastards claimed Iraq had it in 2002, so lets wait for a more credible source than Jane to come out with it. (thought Jane is very credible by western standards)
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by cm on 24.09.2006 [09:56 ]
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I also wish the US faces an unexpected disaster in its planned air campaign against Iran. However, I feel that people supporting Iran are gradually carried away in the sphere of imagination. I always support that keeping in touch with reality is the best way to fight back.
First, if one searches in the web, one will find that the Kalchuga system was not sold to Iran but to ... Iraq! Of course, that was part of the CIA misinformation campaign to impose an Ukrainian government and prime minister of their choice (what was her name?), so they published all this misinformation about illegal sales to China, Iran and Iraq. However, the supposed sales to Iran had to do with six cruise missiles, while those pertinent to Iraq had to do with the radar. Now, either this was a lie or, if it was true, then Saddam was not helped much by the Kolchuga system.
Second, I am not sure on what the Kolchuga does with respect to detecting stealth aircraft. The only chance to detect them indeed comes from their exhaustion (as some commentator points out). Now, how successful is such a detection? We do not have an actual record to judge!
Once more: Don't get carried out by the "kick ass" "get lost" mentality. It is dangerous as it makes us believe we succeed in triumphic victories, the trouble being that they are only in our imagination.
Remember the Ali Whats-his-name, the information minister of Saddam? He now works as a journalist outside Iraq, being granted permission by the US to leave abroad. He won a victory for himself by his imaginary "kick ass" reports, but NOT for the Iraqi people.
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by Iranian-Shi'ite on 24.09.2006 [14:21 ]
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We shouldn't get carried away here.
We don't know with certainty what Iran has, nor do we know with certainty what the USA has.
What we do know is that the USA has been making hollow threats against Iran for many years, and yet has not attacked Iran.
The last time the USA fired a shot at Iran was in 1988 when the US navy shot down an Iranian passenger plane.
The US cowards shot down Iranian airbus flight #655 and killed over 200 civillians.
Since then, the US has not attacked Iran.
What we can infer from that is that the USA is frightened.
If they could have attacked us, they would have by now. What we can infer is that Iran's military is good enough that the USA is hesitating.
The combination of Iran's domestic military technology, the high price of oil, and the USA's difficulties in Iraq and Afghanistan, have made the USA timid.
Iran's military must have some strength since we can see that it has made the USA shy back.
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by sealion on 24.09.2006 [15:17 ]
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Ukraine sells Kolchuga to Iran
Kiev has risked Washington's wrath by selling the Kolchuga passive detection system to Iran.
By Robert Karniol JDW Asia-Pacific Bureau Chief
Bangkok
The Kolchuga is intended to detect the take-off and formation of aircraft groups at ranges beyond those of existing radar, as well as determine the course and speed of targets while designating them for air-defence systems. It can identify aerial targets through their emissions and identify the mode of aircraft weapon control systems.
Three Kolchuga stations would normally operate along with a command vehicle to provide accurate triangulation on a target. The system is claimed to have a range of 600 km (narrow beam) or 200 km (wide beam) along a front of 1,000 km.
It is not known how many Kolchuga stations Iran has acquired. However, sources told Jane's that each costs about USD25 million, with deliveries either recent or imminent.
(end of non-subscriber extract.)
ht tp://www.janes.com/regional_news/africa_middle_east/news/jdw/jdw060922_1_n.shtml
What more confirmation do you want? Subsribers pay good money for Jane's Defense to research matters of military importance and publish their findings, so this story wouldn't go out if Jane's wasn't pretty sure...
Ukraine has a history of cooperating with Iran to supply key weapons, such as the 12 nuclear tipped KH-55 cruise missiles already discussed on another thread...
ht tp://www.homelandsecurityus.com/iran.htm#smoke
Besides, if Iraq under international embargo could procure Kolchuga, then Iran should have no difficulties in so doing, let's be logical...
In the last article that made the top of the page and which I can no longer find to quote from, Iran said they had the means to detect stealth aircraft...
After seeing what happened in Lebanon, I'm confident that, should the US be stupid enough to attack Iran, they'll receive a lesson that they won't soon forget, which will speed up China's dominance as the next world power...
In the meantime, we'll be likely paying $10.00/gallon of gas...
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by sealion on 24.09.2006 [15:23 ]
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Ukraine sells advanced aircraft detection system to Iran
Now Doubting "cm" Thomas can even call or e-mail the editor to ask trick question and/or express his negativity on the issue...
In spite of a likely angry response from Washington, the Ukraine has sold an advanced aircraft detection system to Iran.
Robert Karniol, Asia-Pacific Editor for Jane’s Defence Weekly, says that the system - Kolchuga, is designed to detect the take-off and formation of aircraft groups at ranges beyond that of current radar systems – making a very effective early warning air defence system.
“The system is claimed to have a long range detection of 600km along a front of 1,000km and can determine the course and speed of targets, while designating them for air defence,” said Karniol.
“It is not known how many Kolchuga stations have been acquired by Iran, but sources say that each cost about USD25 million, with deliveries either recent or imminent.”
Jane’s Defence Weekly reports that Iran is looking to bolster air defences in light of suspicions over its nuclear programme – fearing a potential US or Israeli raid on its facilities.
The revelation of the Kolchuga sale to Iran comes at a trying time for Kiev, with President Viktor Yushchenko and Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych duelling over Ukraine’s future relationship with NATO.
Jane’s Defence Weekly reports that the US and UK sent investigators to Kiev in October 2002 to explore claims from March of that year that Ukraine had defied UN arms sanctions by selling the Kolchuga system to Iraq – the Ukrainian government denied the allegations and they were never confirmed.
More recently, Washington was angered by the regime of former Ukrainian President Leonid Kuchma when it emerged last year that it had delivered at lease 18 cruise missiles to Iran and China in 2001. (ENDS)
Editor’s notes
To speak to Robert Karniol, Asia-Pacific Editor of Jane’s Defence Weekly, or for a full copy of the article as it will appear in Wednesday’s edition of Jane’s Defence Weekly, please contact Leah Turner, Press and PR Officer, on +44 (0) 208 700 3922 or +44 (0) 772 582 3631 or email leah.turner"at"janes.com
ht tp://www.janes.com/press/articles/pc060922_1.shtml
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by anti-zionazi on 24.09.2006 [16:45 ]
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why is it that I can't help but feel this time it is more of a case of the Iranian military rather than the US one thinking to themselves or saying, George W Bush's now immortal words:
"BRING 'EM ON!"
LOL...ROFL...LMAO!!
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by cm on 24.09.2006 [17:27 ]
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You are right as far as Janes reporting the sale of this radar system to Iran is concerned. However, this piece of news is not substantiated and it has not been confirmed independently by any other source.
If you search the Internet you will find out that all references (except Jane that is) are about the sale of this system to Iraq, before the US invasion. Now, the Iraqi sale was never confirmed and was (in all probability) a black propaganda misinformation campaign aiming at the destabilization of Kuchma and Yanukovych at that time (check it in these reports--it is obvious). Could it be that the Jane piece aims at the same target also (i.e. to service the US interests towards destabilizing Yanukovych NOW)?
Then, what confirmation do we really have on this system abilities? None whatsoever. If we presume that it was actually used in Iraq (which I do not believe as I have already explained), then it is ineffective. If it was not used, then please give me any real measures of its performance.
What I am afraid of is what I already explained: There is the real political danger that we submerge ourselves into the "kick ass" mentality, claiming victories and triumphs which only exist in our heads. Unfortunately, the enemy will not be "wiped out" because of our wishes.
Now, as far as the Kh55 missile "sale" is concerned: First, it was not a sale but, according to western sources (which, once more, are very dubious) it was plain smuggling. The accusation resulted to some persecution of officials, but it was never proved. According to that accusation SIX missiles were smuggled to China and SIX were smuggled to Iran WITHOUT their nuclear heads.
The source you provide (www.homelandsecurityus.com) for your claims concerning these missiles and Iran is an extreme right wing, completely unreliable site. Suffice to say that the article they post immediately above to the one you are referring to has the title "Iran + Islamic Theocracy = Terrorism. What Else is there to Investigate?" (sic!!!). I can not even understand how you take such sites seriously!
I am sorry if, essentially, I repeated myself, but, in my opinion, sealion did not discuss the issues I was discussing, although his posts looked like they were answers to my posts. I will not discuss my two points any farther, except if there is a real comment on them.
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by sealion on 24.09.2006 [19:19 ]
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by the sound of you...
When was the last time you posted an article that garnered near to 5,000 reads in a day, or so?... For all I know, it might come close to a record number of reads on this Website, yet you feel like you should rain on the parade, because you want PROOF and CONFIRMATION...
Confirmation from whom? Besides the CIA and other Secret Services, they're very few subscriber driven Websites that focus on military issues and Jane's Defense is probably the most respected and trustworthy of what's available...
Do you actually need to see it on FAUX News or read about it on the Washington Post to start believing...
This not the thread to discuss in depth the issue of the KH-55, but a SALE took place, there is a paper trail of all momey transfers and I'll expound on it on this thread:
ht tp://www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=4550
Deriding Web sources is usually the prerogative of Internet Trolls: there is much to be gleaned from Websites of all colours, including Debka, when you focus on the content, rather than the colour of the source...
...And you're wrong again on the primary source of the essence of the claim: it's not www.homelandsecurityus.com, but the Australian Herald-Sun...
Details of the demise of arms dealer Sarfraz Haider are documented in an article written by Lincoln Wright of the Australian Herald-Sun dated 20 February 2005. Sarfraz Haider lived Australia for some time.
Ooopppss... Rupert Murdoch probably owns it, so it's got to be pro-Zionist... can't rely on that... more PROOFS... more CONFIRMATIONS...
...Like this Website specializes in that and, as such is the prime source of reliable information to world governments...
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by cm on 24.09.2006 [20:03 ]
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(1) This article was originally posted in www.homelandsecurityus.com (see www.homelandsecurityus.com/iran.htm#smoke) which is an extreme right wing, completely unreliable site. Suffice to say that the article that is posted immediately above the present one has the title "Iran + Islamic Theocracy = Terrorism. What Else is there to Investigate?" (sic!!!) meaning that claims that Iran supports terrorism need not be substantiated, since Iran is "terrorism" by definition!
(2) This article is being reproduced and propagated in sites supporting Iran. Obviously people that are against US imperialism are eager to adopt any theory that would support Iran's strength (me included). However, there is a serious political loophole here, since articles as the present one originate from dark pro-imperialist sources. Let us see the traps set by this article in detail.
(a) Let us follow the logical line that is implied by this article: Iran is a rogue state smuggling nuclear weapons. Therefore Iran's claims that it does not intend to acquire nuclear weapons are lies. Therefore, Iran's nuclear program is not for peaceful purposes as Iran claims but, indeed, it is after nuclear weapons. Therefore, all proposed measures against Iran by the USA are justified.
Now, you may point out: If an article claims Iran has nuclear weapons, then this claim is actually helping Iran, for it increases the deterrence ability of Iran's army and will stop the USA from attacking Iran. My answer to your claim is: Yes, you are right if the claim could be taken seriously by the USA. But why should the USA believe a claim that originates from its psy-ops and misinformation services?
(b) As the article states quoting Jane's Intelligence Digest (but not referencing the quotation, which may or may not be be a lie): ""There is no doubt that the sale of the missiles to Iran and China could only have taken place with the knowledge and cooperation of senior Ukrainian officials... there is ... mounting evidence to suggest that the sale of missiles to Iran was undertaken with the assistance of the Russian security services."
What is the conclusion then?
First, that the past accusation against the Ukranian prime minister at the time of the supposed smuggling is true. And who was the prime minister at that time? You guessed it, the same person that became prime minister now angering the "west"! So, this is a provocation against the present prime minister of Ukraine.
Second, note the implication of "Russian secret services" in the smuggling. We then have to conclude that pressure has to be applied on Russia, because they help rogue states to acquire nuclear weapons. And by the way who builds the Bushehr plant in Iran (and also guarantees that it is for peaceful use)? Russia, of course. So, what value does Russia's guarantees have?
Isn't all this line of reasoning aiming at pressing Russia towards supporting the USA against Iran?
(3) Who started publishing the recent literature on the alleged Ukrainian Cruise Missiles acquired by Iran? Let us quote our valued article: "A recent article featured on the Internet news site Debka stated "Iran currently has at least 12 Kh-55 strategic cruise missiles with 3,000km range capable of carrying 200 kiloton nuclear warheads." ". Now, if you don't happen to know it, DEBKA is an arm of Israel's Mossad, specializing in misinformation and false intelligence analysis. In the past (two years ago), it was propagating the "information" that Iran was preparing the trial of a nuclear weapon. This is just one example of the many available. We have another (more recent) article that managed to make its appearance on Iraqwar claiming that Israel had infiltrated Hezbollah's higher command, I ridiculed that article (which, if I recall--and sorry if I am mistaken--was posted by sealion) for its obvious stupidities.
The fact is that articles about the alleged "Ukraine Connection" that bring forward either the Kh55 story or the Kachluga story have started appearing with high intensity lately not in right winger neo-con sites only, but in in pro-Iran sites also. Who gains by such articles? If you follow my arguments, there is only one answer: the US!
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by cm on 24.09.2006 [20:12 ]
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"this article" refers to iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/article/103439, which was posted by sealion and actually is the article sealion refers to in his post above (www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=4550). So, the ACTUAL article posted and referenced also above does not come from irandefense etc but from the neo-cons site www.homelandsecurityus.com.
Why doesn't sealion post the previous article also entitled "Iran + Islamic Theocracy = Terrorism. What Else is there to Investigate?". And why doesn't he post the correct ORIGINAL reference which he knows and he posts it as coming from Irandefense?
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by Greekos-Έλλην on 24.09.2006 [20:16 ]
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that said that wikipedia is a zionist entity:
Wikipedia is open for everyone to register, edit, contribute and vote on disputes over the intergrity of any article. SO stop your having fantasies and illusions about seeing zionists everywhere
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by sealion on 24.09.2006 [20:56 ]
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one of the most reliable weapons analyst Website for subscribers, where the The Photo and Caption used to support the KH-55 story ht tp://iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/article/103439 come from...
ht tp://www.janes.com/defence/defpicgal/land_forces/gallery2006/defgal_20060913.shtml
...which clearly confirm the story of this "despicable" rightwing Website...
Next time, I'll post the story from a better sounding site with no negative connotations, like:
ht tp://www.worldthreats.com/middle_east/Iran%20Nuke%20Ready.htm
Once your premise "the story is a hoax because of the bad source" is disproved by Jane's confirmation, then the rest of your speculations fall by the wayside...
2) This article was originally posted at Iran Defence by my alter ego, Zionix: the reason for posting there is that the Website is very user-friendly and the thread doesn't disappear after a couple days...
3) Who gains by such articles?... Iran, very clearly...
Obviously, if Iran already has Nukes, like Pakistan and India, there is no longer the necessity for the US of attacking Iran to prevent it from acquiring nuclear capability, because it's way TOO LATE...
Btw, Iran said that it doesn't intend to enrich uranium to the high degree of concentration required to build nukes, which makes good sense and is not a lie, if they already have ready-made weapons...
Israel acquired its nukes back in the mid-60's and one would have to be a fool to believe that Iran wouldn't be able to close the gap one way or the other in the intervening 40 years...
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by Syrian on 25.09.2006 [11:42 ]
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Wikipedia has mostly zionist editors+moderators.
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